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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 77: Titans /Jaguars Week 18 Analysis: The Jag's Regular Season Collapse is Complete
Ever wondered what it feels like to watch your team’s high hopes crumble to dust? Strap in as we, Phil Smith and James Johnson, tackle the Jacksonville Jaguars' season letdown with candid commentary and a sharp eye on where it all went awry. Our latest episode peels back the layers of the Jaguars’ missed playoff mark, dissecting the strategic missteps against the Titans and the disappointing lack of urgency that plagued the team. We're not holding back as we scrutinize the front office's decisions and the ripple effects of coaching changes that have reshaped the team's horizon.
Feel the burn of our frustration as we dissect the defensive struggles that left fans shouting at their screens. We explore the impact of draft picks, free-agent signings, and evaluate the coaching carousel — including the firing of Mike Caldwell and what this means for the team's future. As we wade through the mire of the Jaguars’ woes, we also shine a light on the retained Press Taylor and the potential direction for a new defensive coordinator. It's a raw look at the challenges faced by the franchise and the formidable task of rebuilding trust with the fanbase.
The offseason looms large, and with it comes a tide of decisions that could reshape the Jacksonville Jaguars' fate. We discuss the critical moves on the horizon, from roster changes to aligning Trevor Lawrence with the right front office leadership. It's not just about lamenting a lost season but about the strategies and bold choices that will define the Jaguars’ path forward. Join us for a hard-hitting episode that doesn't shy away from the tough conversations about the future of Jacksonville's football dreams.
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James Johnson and Phil Smith bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your cohost, phil Smith, and of joining me, as always, is your other cohost, james Johnson.
Speaker 1:Jay, we were recording here on the evening of January 9th, so here, tuesday, a little bit over 48 hours removed from the Jacksonville Jaguar season just spectacularly coming to an end, we find ourselves at the end of what has been a monumental franchise collapse here in the history of the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Speaker 1:You and I have not gotten a chance to record together in a couple of weeks. We had some scheduling issues, some technical issues, all of that. We wanted to, of course, make sure we were together to record this essentially season finale of Touchdown Jaguars. Now we'll continue to, as a lot of news continues to come out and we'll have some obviously higher rings and perhaps more firings coming down the road. We'll see what happens. We're still going to be recording episodes in that vein, but a lot of things obviously going to change, as we will not be talking about playoff football, like we thought we would be, come the beginning of January. Jay, with all of that being said, despite the state that the team is in, it is good to be back here with you recording this evening, boy, we have plenty to talk about, so the time will certainly pass pretty quickly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, glad to be back with you at the very least, because I don't know how I would have handled this episode by myself. I mean, maybe it would have been a very rant driven episode. That's not to say it won't be now, but it's definitely. I guess what I'm saying is it definitely easier to have you to do this episode, and it felt like maybe we should get Stodge or Eric in here with us too, but then I don't know, that would take a while to edit if we did that and hurt their opinions. Yeah, man, I'm at least glad to be back in the booth with you for this episode.
Speaker 2:Of course, very, very, very frustrated and upset with how the season ended, as the Jacksonville Jadwars, as you said. Just a massive failure on their part in terms of how they ended the season, the complete opposite of how they ended the season last year in terms of going on the streak that they went on then. But, as Dewey said, you know, when you don't have any expectations, it's easy to do what you did last year, but when the expectations are there, how do you handle them? And the Jacksonville Jadwars did not handle them well. So we'll discuss that in a ton of great topics here, although frustrating topics, but still great topics here in terms of the events that have transpired after what should be a time where we're speaking about the Jadwars being in the playoffs. Instead we're talking about these events that happen in the game itself too, but that have happened since the Jacksonville Jadwars fell flat on their faces.
Speaker 2:So, that being said, man, as always, you know where you can find us. You can find me at Sportsground underscore, done you at feel the Filipino on Twitter. Feel free to check out our website, touchdown Jaguars, which this is probably a good time to start following the touchdown Jaguars site, because we got a lot to talk about in terms of the offseason we, you know, I wish I could be posting playoff content on there, but we got to post some other content, so it'll be a good time to follow that touchdown jaguarscom. And, as always, you can follow us on many, many platforms, most notably Spotify and Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'll keep the pre-show pretty short and sweet. Everything that Jay mentioned is in the show notes of this episode. The link tree link is where you will need to go and make sure you use that promo code. Touchdown Jaguars over on SeekEek. Save yourself $20 on your first purchase with them. Shout out to SeekEek for rocking with us through the season.
Speaker 1:But yeah, jay, let's just go ahead and, you know, kick it off with we will discuss the game. Of course that happened here the other day as the Jacksonville Jaguars fell to the Tennessee Titans in their season finale in a win. And you're in a win and you're back to back to division champion game and you know we have to start there. We'll discuss that a little bit and then we'll dive into the plethora of news that has come out here in the last couple of days as well as break down some of Doug Peterson's comments at his press conference from the other day, from yesterday I believe. So, jay, I mean it was one of those things, one of those games where everything just seemed to kind of set up perfectly for things to go. Bad for the Jaguars First off. You know you shouldn't be in this position anyway. You're eight and three. A month ago with, I think, a two and a half game lead in the division. And then you find yourself in a position where, again, because of how well Indianapolis and Houston had played and how poorly you had played down the stretch, you find yourself in a position where you have to beat a Tennessee team which they have had, you know, had quite a bit of success with over the last couple of years. But still, those division games as we've talked about in length, or toss ups, you never know what's going to happen. And that's all across the NFL. You ran into a Derek Henry who, in his maybe final bow in Tennessee, just decided to stick it to Jacksonville one more time. You know, maybe a coach in Mike Verrible that also knew he was on the cusp of being let go, which happened today, which kind of surprised me. But talking to our buddy, stoney Kealy, seemed like he wasn't too surprised based on how things went throughout the entire season, but that's another story for another time.
Speaker 1:So, again, a perfect storm. You know, a team that was still a little banged up, but also a team that just throughout the entire season Jay, maybe aside from a few of those wins during that win streak early on a team that just didn't look prepared a lot of times and you throw all of that into a blender and you find yourselves at nine and eight back to back winning seasons. But Dan Hickins said this perfectly the other night on TV the most hollow nine and eight season in franchise history. And you know, I know you didn't get to see the entire game, but you know Tennessee jumped out to that lead early a really bad Tennessee offense, by the way. Jumped out early, took advantage of mistakes and Jacksonville could never really recover. So you know, interested to see what you have to say there's been a lot of discourse about the Trevor Lawrence play, the QB sneak there at the end that basically sealed their fate. So just wanted to see what you took away from that matchup and how you're feeling again a couple of days removed from their loss.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a few days after the loss and after processing it, you know, after the game, initially it was super embarrassing, and it still is. But then you get deeper into it and then it becomes more than embarrassment, right, and you see which you know we've been talking about this for a long time just how flawed this team is fundamentally. And also, I think the key that I came out of the game with what I, what I saw of it was, and you always have this thought in the back of your mind, right Is last season was some somewhat of a flute, right, and you look at last season specifically and how the Jaguars got into the playoffs. They played a backup and he's his name is escaping me right now with Tennessee that went to the Vikings recently. Phil helped me out here, josh.
Speaker 1:Dobbs, sorry, my mouse died. Oh, you're OK, I was trying to unmute myself. You're good, josh.
Speaker 2:Dobbs, yes, josh Dobbs, former Tennessee volunteer and future rocket engineer, right, shout out to him. But you know former Jaguars who, and former Jaguar too, yeah, but you know that that helped them get into the the postseason, you know, and possibly made them look a little better than they were. And then you, you look at how they did in the postseason. Now that gave you some optimism, of course. So you know there's that. But what I'm saying is that lost to this, lost to Tennessee, that came up this past Sunday, may last year, feel more so of a gimmick and Heading forward. You know, when you look at this roster, which this game will make you do, and not just this game, but just the losing streak. They went on. They went on a four game losing streak, beat Carolina. You kind of have to feel like that was a little bit. I don't want to say that was a flute, they were just simply better than Carolina. But that went in probably mean much when looking at it in terms of what it meant, of how good this team is. But when you look at all of these last few games, and especially that Titans game, it may should go back and evaluate this team. At least I did and I'm still not done evaluating the team, but this team and I think it was said on the Athletics podcast one of the athletics podcast, I think Mike I think his name is His first name is Mike. He's on the podcast and he mentioned this this team is severely flawed In terms of his makeup and last year may have given us a little bit too much false hope and it's funny we're mentioning this right, because this is the same kind of thing we mentioned a little bit with the 2017 team, but they were a little bit more loaded, you know, in terms of they definitely had a defense, but it was more so a question on office. This team just is flawed on both sides of the ball All through. Well, if you include special teams, you might get throw Brandon McManus in there as an issue to. He came on strong at the end of the season, so he's kind of you know, 5050, depending on who you ask. But that's what this game did.
Speaker 2:For me is just afterwards, I have to evaluate. In it, I kind of came away from things just feeling that this team has too many holes in it and they have way too many holes in it for us to expect A GM that hasn't really achieved much to be able to fix. Based on his past especially when you look at his past he's not equipped to get the Jaguars back to where they need to get next year in terms of getting back to the playoffs. This is the wrong guy you would, you know, want in this situation where you have issues on the interior offensive line and the interior defensive line and you got to hand out some money to some people too, based on his history, his history says he's not the guy that's going to be equipped to do that. So that's the issue, and I left this game concerned that the Jacksonville Jaguars won't be able to. You know that next year could be a throwaway season, basically, but you know time will tell on it and you know we'll just have to see how the cars play out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, jay, I know exactly that clip you're talking about. I mean, we're talking about a failure on a monumental level when it comes to the handling of the first four to five years of Trevor Lawrence. Because, remember and every team in the league knows this, every fan knows this the time to build your team is when you secure that franchise quarterback. Take advantage of the time before you have to eventually pay that quarterback and, you know, ride that success and we're getting out of ourselves here. But listen, he has completely botched this and they're going to continue to stand packed. I can't remember who said it.
Speaker 1:This is going to come up a lot, because we've seen just Jaguar Twitter have a field day here over the last couple of couple days. They took a nine and eight football team from last year, barely made any changes, and they went nine and eight again. And they're acting like the surprise to Pikachu meme. Right, they stood pat with basically what they had and are now trying to figure out, man, what went wrong? Right? Well, we've told, we've been telling you what's wrong, you're just not listening. And now we find ourselves in a position heading into this offseason, jay, where we are seeing history repeat itself, with not only Doug Peterson, but also Shod Khan, who obviously is a very savvy and smart businessman, but he don't know football, and we had an opportunity a couple of years ago for him to bring in somebody that knows football. That didn't happen, and here we are, january 9th 2023, talking about how the Jacksonville Jaguars fumbled a nearly three game lead in the AFC South. Go ahead, jay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then I guess I should go into the specifics of why I felt the way that I felt after the game. But when you like, you know, you look at again, I haven't seen all the game, but I've seen enough of it and when you look at, especially like, defensively right, how and we kind of pointed this out and I kind of I mentioned it even kind of before, we commented on it on Twitter, and they're not the exact same statements but they're, you know they're close to each other but we like, looking at the, the defensive clips right Of how the defense looked against the Titans team, that they really didn't have anything to gain but ruining you know, a playoff berth for us and when you look at our history, why not ruin it?
Speaker 2:Right? But specifically that defense left me feeling deflated and how they looked in the Titans game from the standpoint. They kind of look like this all season. To be honest with you and we'll talk about, you know, the firing the mic call well later. But that defense, which has a lot of personnel, that bulky built, and again we mentioned the interior off defense line being a big issue, you know that show there and really that front, you know, because that's what you need, to be there at Henry right.
Speaker 2:Is you need the front to be there at Henry, and that was just. You know what I'm saying. I said it in the comment in the clip that they posted. Where Derek Henry is just you know, running almost freely up the field is. I don't sense any violence with this defense. I've never seen a defense in Jaguar's history as bad as our defenses have been at times and as good as our defenses have been at times too. I've never seen a defense that lacks the violence you need up front right, especially against a team that most people would say their offense isn't great as you said earlier, field. But the lack of violence up front man, and the lack of urgency in terms of just understanding what this game means. And you know this is a game where if you don't make it, if you don't win, you're not going to the playoffs. So you know it needs to be a sense of kind of putting your body on the line. I didn't feel that from this defense and a lot of people will be like well, jr, you calling this, you know, defense soft and all of that, I'm out. I won't go that far because they get in the NFL there. You know you can't be soft. So those players to be where they are. They absolutely aren't soft. Ok, they have more athleticism and more physical ability than we can ever imagine, or that we have in our fingertips, for that matter, but they, you know they didn't play Like NFL caliber players should play in terms of in that particular game against the Tennessee Titans, and that was the part that really upset me.
Speaker 2:And this is a lot of. These are a lot of picks and a lot of free agent acquisitions that Trent Baalke has invested in Right and have some of which he's given a lot of money, some of which he's extended from the Dave Caldwell era, which is Devon Hamilton Specifically when we're talking about him, and like Trey Herndon and guys like that. But a lot of these are guys that Trent Baalke picked up. And yeah, you know, of course, you know scheme does play into this too. So you know Mike Caldwell's firing to you know degree is justified too, and we'll talk more on that again.
Speaker 2:But more so just yet at defense and just how much Baalke put into that defense. You know the money he's giving fully fatacoss, who hasn't Really shown up, extended Roy Robertson, harrison, who has been at times streaky and then at times, you know, he's gone Trading up for Devon Lloyd, who looks like he's just lost or either doesn't want A part of the physical aspect of the game. Right For you a little, can you can give him that. He probably hit on for you. Yeah, there's no problem in any, you know he hit on for you, maybe Trayvon Walker, but it's deeper than that.
Speaker 2:Y'all you know we can point to one or two people on this defense that were hits, but a defense is made of 11 people and when you only have two to three good players on the defense and the other players aren't, you have a problem. And that's the part of the void that Trent Baalke is supposed to make up and, by the way again I'll say this again for the record the best player on that defense when even drafted by Trent Baalke. Do not forget that part. Ladies and gentlemen, josh Allen wasn't a Trent Baalke pick. That was a Dave Caldwell pick, by the way. So the guy on defense I don't know if I can even really count him as a bulky addition or acquisition, or I mean he hasn't extended them, so we can't really. You know that ain't that bulky, had nothing to do with that, okay, but yeah, from that standpoint, when you look at it from that standpoint, and just you know how much went into the defense and how much they're getting out of it. That's what left me feeling ultimately deflated, like I just explained prior.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, like you said, there was a certain magic that they caught last year. We've talked about this actually throughout the entire season. They caught lightning in a bottle last year and rode that wave to the divisional round where they ran into the eventual Superbomble Champion. I can't remember who it was that said this in the locker room after the game. It might have been Andre Sisko. I'm not 100% sure, but someone had mentioned they were waiting for that moment, like that switch to flip, and it never happened. That's a problem. You should not be waiting for some movie style moments to just automatically begin happening to you, because that's what happened last year. We all watched Sounds of the Game. We all watched all these video montages. What happened to the Jaguars last year was magical. It's one of those moments, or a lot of those moments, that became the reasons, like we watched sports, the reasons that you are a fan of a team, because of stuff that happened last year. That happened a lot and they got bailed out a lot this year. The expectation is you take that step forward and those happen organically, not because the football gods are looking out. For whatever was going on last year I can't explain it. It was week after week, we were seeing something unbelievable. It was insane. That never happened this year. That's obviously problematic as well, because those things typically aren't just given to teams. Over and over and over again, the team.
Speaker 1:When you look at the roster, jay, it's a mess. Again. We're getting ahead of ourselves. We're blending all of our conversations into one right now and it's fine. It's the end of the season. Who cares? What do we want? This is a mess man. They might need three new offensive linemen. They need tight end help. They're going to need probably three or four new wide receivers. They have to pay Josh Allen. They have to figure out if this is the offseason in which you move forward with giving Trevor Lawrence $160, $200 million, whatever it's going to cost. They're standing pat. They're standing pat. Basically, they made a couple of coaches the scapegoats, it seems, and the coach is saying things about the quarterback that are concerning. We'll get to that here in just a moment.
Speaker 1:Ultimately, jay Tennessee, they wanted it more. They went out there. A game that didn't matter for the most part in terms of the wins and losses to them, but it sure as hell mattered to that locker room and to that coaching staff to go out there and return the favor from last year. Ryan Tannehill, who is at this point just one of those veteran backups, and Derek Henry, again on his way out carving us up like the old days. It's embarrassing. They should be embarrassed, I think they are. But the fact that coaching staff in front office seem to be relatively I mean, I'm sure they're not okay with how things went, but the blame is not being shifted in the correct direction, I think, is what our concern is. I don't know, man, it was an ugly Sunday, it was a frustrating Sunday and we'll see what happens next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm going to say something that might frustrate a lot of people here to also to add on to what you were just saying. Also, shout outs to the Houston Texans, who you know we can't stand. But the Houston Texans this is what I want people to do with playoffs. Go and watch the Houston Texans, who might very well be knocked out of the playoffs in the first round If they did, their season still was a success. But shout outs to the Houston Texans, right, who they came out of a situation where it looked like people might not want to play for that organization for racial reasons, right. And their owner, thank. His name is Cal McNair. You know, put in the work to fix it, which is what we need from our owner is the willingness to put in that work. You know what I might take a little while here for, but I'm going to try not to Now that I'm thinking about it and reflecting on it.
Speaker 2:Our owner shot come for the Jacksonville Jaguars was the same guy in his first press conference that held up two tickets or one ticket or whatever it was, and looked at the people and we didn't ask for him to tell us this, voluntarily told us, told the fan base that he wanted to make this, these tickets in my hand, the hottest tickets in football, in the NFL. And to do that, though, it takes effort, right, you know. It takes the willingness and, as you said, feel great business man, by the way, great American story. It takes the willingness and the wherewithal and the effort to make those tickets the hottest tickets in football. You're not going to make those tickets the hottest tickets. Standing pad with Trent Balkie, all right, as a matter of fact, of all 32 GMs, that's the last person that you can say that statement that you made. That's the last GM you can say that with and expect results in terms of making the tickets the hottest tickets in football.
Speaker 2:Going back to the Texans, though shout outs to the Texans ownership for actually putting in the work that we want to see shot come put in to make this product watchable. Shout outs to them for figuring it out, despite all they had been through. Again, they were in a situation where it was like, oh man, who would want to play for that organization, and you all know what I'm talking about but despite that, he went out. If I can recall, the report said, you know he had to offer Nick Casero multiple offers for him to finally decide to come over there and be the owner or, excuse me, the general manager. That shows determination right there. You know, hey, like I'm a little, if you, I don't want to leave the New England Patriots, okay, well, let me up the offer. Oh, you don't like that offer? Let me up the offer again.
Speaker 2:That kind of effort is worth acknowledging because we don't, we don't have that here in Jacksonville. And they brought in Nick Casero and they hired the Miko Ryan's. They, you know, they put in the time and effort and resources and again, you know, a good coach from a good tree. They put the time, the effort and the resources into making the moves in the draft. They put the time, the effort and the resources the right amount of time, effort and resources, by the way, for all of this into doing free agency as well, player acquisition in general. And now they're where they are. And the Jacksonville Jaguars the window has closed. Let's just face it. You know. You look at our salary cap, you look at their salary cap. The windows closed. Those guys seem to have it right In terms of the front office. We don't. So again, and this might anger people, but shout outs to the Houston Texas for getting it right and putting the effort and the time and the resources into getting it right and flipping the switch as quickly as they did and overtaken the AFC Pulture.
Speaker 1:And not only that, jay, you know, with the front office and getting to Mika Ryan's and they are again a job that it didn't seem like anybody was going to take they go out and they get two franchise cornerstones in one draft, back to back, and remember where their quarterback situation was just a couple of years ago. And that guy is now in Cleveland, can't stay healthy and is just being paid $200 million to do nothing. Well, joe Flacco is starting to play off game for him. So, yeah, I agree, shout out to Houston for what they did. Like you said, the door is now closed there.
Speaker 1:I think two out of the three other AFC South teams have the most salary cap top five, most salary cap in the league coming up and there's no reason to believe that they won't continue to build. You know the jury's still out on Anthony Richardson, but you know you and I were fans of him as far as the little bit that we saw. Now can he be or can you turn into that franchise guy? We'll see. You know, with a guy coming into league with that little experience, it's usually not a great sign, but we he flashed, you know. And Gardner Mintchew is still probably, you know, one of those top tier backup quarterbacks, he'll win you. What would they win? Eight games, he'll win you six to seven games a year. Five to eight, maybe six or seven is probably too many five to five to seven games.
Speaker 1:But you know, we certainly didn't invest in the backup quarterback position to the point where they could say, hey, trev, let's sit you down for a few games in a row and throw CJ out there. You know, yeah, man, it's disappointing. Does go back to the conversation we had at the beginning of the year, remember the over under for Jacksonville was nine. We were like man, we got to go throw somebody. Vegas, vegas, don't lose, they don't build, they don't. I think Greeny says this on get up, they don't build those giant buildings in Las Vegas because they're giving money away, right. So here we are.
Speaker 2:So back in back nine and eight seasons so true man that was beautiful hotels there.
Speaker 1:That don't happen. So, jay, before we talk about some of these changes that have been made here in the last couple of days, is there anything else you want to mention when it comes to this game? I know we didn't really talk too much about it. We're going to break down a lot more about what we have to say here in a moment, but anything else you want to mention when it comes to the game in particular?
Speaker 2:No, no, not at all. Yeah, man, we can get right into the rest of this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's move on to some of the staff changes that were made here in the last 2448 hours. The Jacksonville Jaguars the primary release was the firing of defensive coordinator Mike Caldwell. They also let go defensive line coach Branson Buckner, defensive quality control coach Sean Kalina, inside linebackers coach Tony Gilbert, safeties coach Cody Grimm, defensive quality control coach Tee Mitchell, senior defensive assistant Bob Sutton and passing game coordinator and cornerback coach Deshae Townsend. So there is one name there, jay, that is obviously absent, and the name I think people were most clamoring for, even more so than Mike Caldwell. I mean, I do want to shout out Mike Caldwell, I know, and things did not go the way that we wanted them to, but obviously these are people that we're talking about. I know, for the most part, we don't have to tell our audience that these are people with lives and families and we certainly never wish for people to be fired, but we do want people to be accountable and when you sometimes part of that accountability is, you lose your job.
Speaker 1:I do want to shout out Mike Caldwell. Jay, we always know how difficult it is for minorities to get these opportunities and, as two people of color ourselves, you know, do hope that Mike Caldwell lands on his feet finds other work. It's unfortunate. Earlier in the season we were talking about him possibly getting head coaching interviews. That's obviously not going to be the case anymore, but it doesn't mean that he can't in the future. So we do want to send the best to all of the people that are affected by this in terms of just their personal lives and finding other opportunities. Hopefully that will happen. The name on here that is absent, obviously, is Press Taylor, which should not be a surprise if you know what we know about Doug Peterson. So, jay, just want to get your initial reaction first of the names we did get that have been let go and if you have any inkling in terms of where they should look for a new defensive coordinator to replace Mike Caldwell.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you said, yeah, first, you want to start off by saying, because you know these people have families too Like you, don't? You know what I'm saying? Wish this on anybody. And I mean you can absolutely make the case of between the two coordinators. You know there a case can be made that Press was more fireball than Mike Caldwell, right? A lot of people would agree with that. So you know there is that.
Speaker 2:Now, in terms of the Caldwell firing, I will say to a degree it does feel scapegoatish, but at the same time, you know we saw the defense out there. You just heard what I said about the defense not too long ago, right? So when you look at it from that standpoint of what I mentioned, you know just the lack of violence and people trying to run around blocks is how we put it, and you know just not only that, but what Dewey was saying. I mentioned this on Twitter to what Dewey was saying about people missing assignments to write. When Dewey said that and I tweeted this, I knew then that Mike Caldwell was out of there. So I don't want to say it's not a firing. That wasn't justified, because when you have players who are playing on discipline, as Dewey mentioned and out of place and also some we mentioned, you know, phil, in this podcast earlier this year, the lack of fundamentals we're seeing out of this defense. You know, before we even talk scheme and all of that, fundamentally they're flawed. You know they, they can't tackle. You know it don't. What scheme matters when you can't tackle right? That's on Mike Caldwell, especially when you had, I think, not Andre Cisco but Ray Sean Jenkins saying this earlier in a press conference. It wasn't a press conference, it was just. You know the media members came up to him in the locker room type of thing.
Speaker 2:But saying that, like one thing that you know, Coach Bob Sutton, one of the assistants, who was, you know he was fired and had been with Doug in Kansas City, if I can recall, which kind of shows you like, even like people, that Doug is known for a while. We're getting a boot over Press Taylor, which that's another story for another time, but that's alarming and concerning people that he played with, if I'm not mistaken, like Bernie Parmigl, running back coach, he's on the offensive side, not the defensive side, though he played with like, or coach with, back in the day with Philadelphia in the first run with Philadelphia, not the when he was the head coach, but with Andy Reed, like Mike Caldwell himself, they were on the staff together. These things go back to, you know, 2010 and before that. You know, and relationships that go back in Bob Sutton's case, back into, you know, the 2013-15,. You know, areas somewhere in there how willing Doug was to get rid of these guys over keeping Press, which we'll talk about that later on another episode. But going back to what I was saying about Mike Caldwell, yeah, ray Sean Jenkins mentioned this man. Like we practice tackling, tackling, tackling. So they knew tackling was an issue coming into the season and I knew it because I tweeted this in February, march or whatever that what the Jaguars needed to emphasize in the draft was sure tacklers and they did not get any sure tacklers in the draft. So I've been well aware of the fundamental flaws of this defense and that, you know, of course, correlates back to last year when they did go on a playoff run. That still was an issue. They somehow got into the playoffs with that tackling issue that they had. So, fundamentally, when you, when you aren't getting the fundamentals right, yeah, a coach needs to be fired. And again, I don't wish to fire on anybody, but you know somebody has to be held accountable, as you said, for that field. So it's not shocking in terms of that situation of them firing Mike Caldwell.
Speaker 2:In terms of, you know, defensive coordinators, you know I might reach out to some people and you know, ask questions on this, more so in terms of you know what direction Doug can go there. But I did have a little short list of not necessarily defensive coordinators but maybe defensive coordinators but names that Doug has worked with in the past that have NFL ties. Mark Coyne Manuel is one who people might remember when Doug Gus Bradley was here he was looking at Mark Coyne Manuel. Juan Castillo, who he might be up there in age in terms of maybe wanting him as a defensive coordinator, but Doug spent a lot of time with Juan Castillo with Philadelphia during that first run again that run I mentioned with Mike Caldwell. He was with the Washington commanders, by the way, so you know their staff obviously been let go because Ron Rivera was fired. Al Harris, somebody he's worked with, somebody you might be familiar with, because I think Al Harris is with the Dallas Cowboys now feel. But that's a name that Doug has worked with in the past in terms of connecting tree dots, dino Vaso, if I didn't say that as well. He worked with Dino Vaso multiple times, I think, both in Philadelphia and with the Eagles too.
Speaker 2:So those are just some names that could be assistants on the staff, not more so coordinators. But in a course, like you know, when you talk coordinator, you think about people who have experience or that were former head coaches, right, those probably make the best coordinators. You think about a Ron Rivera, who some people might think like his past is prime, but I think Ron Rivera could probably still coach up a defense and that's what the Jags need really is. You know one of those guys that have head coaching experience because, as I mentioned, they are fundamentally flawed too. And you know who knows also how to fix a defense and adjust to what they have better than a former head coach, right? So that kind of helps. You know that head coaching experience would help the next defensive coordinator make a you know, a smooth transition. So you know that's a name to look at.
Speaker 2:A lot of people think Mike Bravel will get a head coaching job. You know the Patriots may look at him but like, why go from Billy Chick to another Billy Chick disciple? I'm not the owner of the Patriots, but Bob Kraft, let's try something different, you know. So I'm not 100% sure that that's the route to go for them. And then, if you're Mike Bravel, you know who out there has a quarterback that you don't have to spend a lot of time rebuilding with.
Speaker 2:The only team that comes to mind is the Chargers. So it's not like you know. It's a situation where Mike Bravel don't get to be picky either If you don't want to go into one of those messed up situations. He don't have to, and he could just take a defensive coordinator job with us a division he knows, by the way, which he can have great success with. And also, knowing that Doug Peterson could be on the way out as well Sounds enticing right. So he came to mind. I have to do some research on some other guys. I haven't really gone down that rabbit hole yet or, you know, looked into that research, but those are just some names in terms of assistants and coordinators that just come right off the top of my mind.
Speaker 1:What about Leslie Frazier? Jay, I've seen John Shipley on Twitter talking about him a lot. What do you know about Leslie Frazier? I think he's in Buffalo, right?
Speaker 2:Would love him. Would love him. If I'm not mistaken, I think he took the year off, phil. I correct me if I'm wrong on that. Okay, yeah, yeah, I would love him. You know he's gonna. He should get head coaching consideration. But, yes, that's exactly.
Speaker 2:Again, that's the type of you know I don't want a former somebody who's currently somebody's defense line. Nothing against those guys and those guys it's some guys out there that are that will translate into great coordinators. But when you look at how fundamentally flawed this team is and also, they just need somebody who graphs the concept of you know, I got to work with what I have right now instead of the other way around. You guys will, you know, cater to my scheme type of thing, and I feel like head coaches are more equipped to do that, because that's kind of what they did in their previous jobs. But, yeah, leslie Frazier man would love him. We absolutely love him.
Speaker 2:And also, again, like he fits that mold of you know, vrable, right, he fits the mold of, like you know, this is a guy that, if it don't work out with Doug, hey, you know, shotcon put me into consideration as well. So, yeah, very experienced, has a. You know, he's a encyclopedia for defensive football, right? He can help get these fundamental flaws cleared up. Maybe help them with some talent evaluations, because they struggle with that, because you know who is evaluating the talent. And another thing I'm finding out too that's making me less a fan of Doug. Doug isn't great at talent evaluations either.
Speaker 1:They need better talent evaluations, and if a coach could help them with that yeah, I'm on board and I think Leslie Frazier could- yeah, I think that's a name people are going to bring up quite a bit and, yeah, a whole list here that Shipley put up earlier today Wink Martindale, obviously with him just leaving the New York Giants. That's going to be a name. You hear a lot. But I mean, like you mentioned, jay, is Doug going to bring in a guy though that could step in and replace him should things continue to go in the wrong direction? You know we've seen him stick with his guys when it comes to a press tailor and this is.
Speaker 1:I can't believe this is happening again, although we should have. You know, I think some, some of our connections and Philly kind of warned us of this happening. But I mean, do you think that prevents him from going from speaking to a guy with head coaching experience? I mean, obviously, you know Mike McCoy is on the, on the coaching staff there as well, but do you think that Doug would stray away from that just because of his worry for his own security? He?
Speaker 2:could, but if he was smart he wouldn't Right. And here's why the defensive coordinator that he hired, mike Caldwell, was a former, if I'm not mistaken, Mike Caldwell was more so a positions coach. He may have done a little bit of defensive coordinator, but, if I can recall, mike Caldwell was more of somebody who was a positions coach prior to his run here. So I think he never was a defensive coordinator before joining Jacksonville. And how did that work Right? And another reason he should want somebody with head coaching experience is because, yeah, while you, you know, you worry about your job security, this, that and the other.
Speaker 2:For the mention, though, the things I mentioned, doug is smart enough to see the same things on film that I'm seeing the fundamental flaws, right, the, the scheming in terms of, you know, putting players in a situation that's better suited for them. He's seeing these same things, and a head coach with defensive coordinator experience is best suited to help him fix this stuff. All right, so if for him to overlook anybody that was a former head coach would be him hurting his chances to get out of the mess that he's in. So, yeah, he should be looking for somebody with that type of experience, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there is a pretty stacked list of candidates out there this year. So it's going to be imperative to him and his future here in Jacksonville that he gets this right, because obviously he's committed to what's happening on the offensive side. And I want to kind of use that to transition Jay to what he has been mentioning in his end of the year press conference from the other day and some things that people are a little concerned about as far as whether it be tone or how it's being delivered or what's being said without outright saying it. You know there was a lot to break down there and I know you had gotten through most of it. I've seen bits and pieces here and there, but you know a lot of people had a lot to say about this and you know we'll kind of transition there. Unless you have anything else to add on in terms of the coaches, that we'll let go.
Speaker 2:Yeah Also. I just want quick thing to add. Here too is another reason he should want a coach that fits that mold. For my head coach turn, you know, or that's you know. Ok, we'll be in a defensive coordinator again. It's also to eat, so you're willingly keeping press Taylor right. So for press Taylor to have the best opportunity to remain a offensive coordinator, or for the fingers not to be pointed at him, and for you know, press Taylor, not to put you on the hot seat, doug Peterson, the best opportunity to avoid that is get you a defensive coordinator that can alleviate some, some of the strain off of the offense. A lot of why the offense struggle is because you know they had to do a lot when the defense didn't show up and you know it was time where the defense had to show up for the offense and the lack of what they did. You know getting a coach that I mentioned like that would help balance that out. You know what I'm saying. That'll help camouflage If you will press Taylor's struggles too. You know, if you have a defense that can get him out of terrible situations as well. So I'll say that now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, going to what you were saying about the press conference. I mean, I guess the place to start is, of course. You know what he said about Trevor Lawrence and I wrote, you know, some notes here about that and personally his comments about Trevor Lawrence. I would have Like them a little better if he put emphasis on Not Trevor Lawrence's turnovers but more so Trevor Lawrence's turnovers that he caused as well, but also the ones, because it's a lot of these two and as a head coach I don't understand how you don't mention this. He kind of briefly mentioned it in his comments, but not as much as he harped on Trevor Lawrence making turnovers and mistakes. But I would have liked it better if he kind of and not not, not even for the sake of Trevor, trevor's feelings or ego, whatever the case may be, but for the simple fact that it's true. You know kind of also laid it out there how many of these interceptions and what not are on people not being on the same page, running the wrong routes.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm saying drops. Evan Negro had one hit him dead in the hands. He needed out of his own hands. It went into, you know, titans, defenders, hands. How can that not be mentioned in addition to the, the turnovers that Trevor Lawrence calls, so that to me I wasn't a fan of. I'm cool with you criticizing the quarterback, but let's, let's lay it all out here. You know, let's lay it all out. What about the situations where Trevor hit people dead in the hands of we have to be somewhere near the top of the league and drops and they didn't come through for him? Let's talk about that, let's have that conversation too. So if you're Trevor Lawrence here and that that's that from the fan perspective is like, how will Trevor Lawrence take that time will tell? So yeah, I'm curious to think what's your thoughts of his comments on Trevor Lawrence?
Speaker 1:I think they're really, really concerning and it seems like Doug will be willing to throw others under the bus before Before taking account, before accepting accountability. Right, and we've seen this before, we have seen this story page by page. He is stealing his own flow, you know what I mean, like he can't blame anybody else other than himself. And to come out and say you know, I think the offensive line was fine and press did it, you know, I think, did a great job, and things that we don't want to hear and we know that are not true. Also, you know we have the, the statistics and the data and the eye test, obviously in the film show that it was not true. I heard that Trev I think it was Dilla that stated that Trev has a meeting or had a meeting with shotgun today as well. I would love to be a fly on that wall, but if this comes down to a choose me or choose the head coach situation, you know if Jay, I mean we're, we're way away from this, I don't I don't want to spread some kind of conspiracy or put people into a panic, but if Trev asks out or somehow just leaves without any type of compensation, you know his contract is up and he just bolts and leaves. He leaves Jacksonville. Just move the damn team, man, because there is nothing in the in the history of this team probably since 1999, showing that this, this franchise, is capable of what it takes to be successful. I mean, we're talking about, you know, a lot of people are obviously right now. The Panthers are an absolute mess, their owner is a joke, but they've been to two Super Bowls. Right, they had Cam Newton for a decade. They had Luke Keekley for a decade. Right, they had Hall of Fame caliber players. If you get to this point and Trev is addressing these concerns, I'm sure you've seen that video circulating now, jay of the, the near missed touchdowns from just this year, we won't even talk about the ones from his rookie season or even last year you can't fail the quarterback. You can't allow Doug to repeat the mistakes of the past and have him essentially again have a start from, literally from the ground up, all over again. You cannot allow it to happen. And Shotcon, for I mean again for the second out of three years in a row. You know we have, we have people clamoring for change. That's just not coming and you know again, if that comes to that point where you you had to have absolutely insane circumstances for this kid to even get here and you're completely blowing it.
Speaker 1:Jay, I want to get your thoughts on this because I saw somebody point this out is Trevor Lawrence going to be the next Matthew Stafford, in that he is going to go elsewhere at the end of his career in a much better situation and probably win a Super Bowl? I'm sure that that pains me to say it. It pained me to read that, but I was like damn, I hope that's not the case. But here we are. I mean Matthew Stafford, Calvin Johnson. They ran that guy out of town and and now think you know, for the Lions fans sake, they have. They have seemed to write that ship Boy.
Speaker 1:Talk about two franchises that want to complete the opposite directions. Right, the Lions last year just barely missed the playoffs but kept the Packers out. We got in. Both teams came into the league or came into the season with, I would probably say, the equal amount of enthusiasm and hype. And as far as teams on the rise, and look, the Lions are hosting a game this year, the hosting Matthew Stafford, which is pretty insane. The script writers got it perfect there. But yeah, I mean lots of concern there, jay, but also just want to get your comments on him possibly being the next Matthew Stafford. That's a good question.
Speaker 2:I mean possibly with, you know, shahad Khan's lack of football knowledge and just lack of ability and maybe even effort into getting you know the right people in the front office. I mean, that's why I had that conversation what a week or two ago where I, you know, I drew the parallels of general managers to their quarterbacks. Right, that's why I drew that comparison. It's because that's the key of Shahad Khan's ability to get the ball out of the way. It's because that's the key of Shahad Khan not making this the Matthew Stafford situation. What GM are you going to pair him with? Or player executive Are you going to pair Trevor Lawrence with? To make life easier and make this work and make it a dynasty? Right, we all know the answer isn't Trent Baalke. But you know, again, just looking at it, lamar Jackson has Eric D'Costa. Great situation for him. As much as people are like, oh, he's going to be out, you know he's. They're not going to resign him, he's going to one out. Lamar Jackson is with a great GM, ok. Brett Beach with Patrick Mahones was one we talked about, so on and so forth. So that's the key for that not happening.
Speaker 2:Now, interesting thing I want to talk about is what you said about you know, just moving the team type of thing. Well, the problem with that is even the travel on his leaves. We be in a situation where we're signing to a new deal for the new stadium at that point, so they'd have this beautiful stadium and they wouldn't be able to fill it up. Basically, it would be one of those situations. So, yeah, the team, you know, at that point you can move them after what they're going to sign for for the you know the stadium, if it gets done, that is. So they just kind of be stuck with Shah-e-Khan and the other way around, I guess. Did you notice this one?
Speaker 1:Man, I just cannot believe that we are in the situation, but also, at the same time, it seems like we should believe that we are, because that's just how things go when you are covering and you are a fan of the Jacksonville Jaguars. This is going to be an incredibly important offseason and I can tell you, depending on what happens over the next couple of weeks, and then, of course, the draft free agency, I mean I can definitely say that people are not going to be coming in to next year with the same optimism that they did as last year, and rightfully so. We've seen this story before, we've seen this play out elsewhere, and it's not giving us a lot of reason for that optimism. So, man, it's a bummer jam. I am truly, truly bummed to be having these types of conversations on January 9th, when we should be talking about hosting a playoff game. I mean, in retrospect, they did save me some money, which is nice, but I would have liked to go. Remember I didn't get to go to last year's playoff game because I got COVID, so I missed the Chargers game. So this was going to be my first playoff game as a season ticket holder and I was excited about that. Yeah, cleveland was going to come in here and possibly do what they did on Sunday Night Football. But I mean, just as a fan, that would have been my first playoff game as far as being in attendance, since the 99AFC Championship game against the Titans. And we don't acknowledge what happened there, but so that's a bummer.
Speaker 1:But I know you had some more notes there that you jotted down. Anything else you wanted to highlight from that presser? There is a. We're going to have a whole offseason to break this down. We're going to bring guest on I'm sure we'll have Eric back on, smiley and probably some of our contemporaries throughout the Jaguar podcasting community. So we have plenty of time to discuss this, jay, and usually after the season officially ends we take some time off. But there's probably going to be some news coming out here over the next few weeks that we're certainly going to cover. But any of your other takeaways from the press conference?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could just kind of rattle them off. We mentioned the press and what he said about pressing being a play caller and just his comments to me. Just they came off as he was saying it's real hard to be a play caller and I'm paraphrasing him in this league and that just felt like excuses for me for press and he then goes on to say that he thinks press did a good job.
Speaker 2:But yeah, no coach makes that excuse for an offensive coordinator. Because you know what you get when you sign up to be an OC, that's what comes with it. Right Is having a very hard job, especially when you have a young quarterback that you need to protect and make things easier on as press situation is. So it's funny how he kind of wouldn't say that they put too much on Trevor's shoulders but at the same time would say that press tailor had a job. That's very difficult. So that's one thing. And the other thing he mentioned the offensive line. He thinks that the offensive line is fine.
Speaker 2:I for the love of God don't hope he really believes that and I don't think Doug really believes that. But I wouldn't be shocked if he, if they, stood up with the current offensive line. But you know, here you have a guy here, doug, who also, you know, mentions that injuries messed up the camaraderie with the defense. But they kind of want to. You know he didn't want to kind of make that case for Trevor and the injuries he endured. So another red flag there. We'll get into that in on another episode. But you know he just thought it was healthy. You know they weren't getting reps together with that same five. I think that's BS Doug. And again, that's why I was saying earlier man, I'm coming out of this situation way less of a Doug Peterson fan than I was before. I overrated him severely in terms of his evaluation skills and, you know, probably from a coaching perspective to. I apologize for that y'all.
Speaker 1:So anyway, but yeah, he got us all, man. We bought into all of that, right Because of last year, you know. And here we are now again with him literally playing the same tune that he did to end his tenure in Philadelphia, as if he didn't learn anything. That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:And you know for him to say that about our offensive line. Right, you came from an offensive line at you know PFF if I can recall it, 2017 graded as the top offensive line in football. You came from an offensive line with Jason Kelsey, lane Johnson. For you to come from watching that to watching what you're seeing now Luke Fortner getting walked into the backfield right To go from Jason Kelsey to that and for you to sit there and act like you don't see what's going on, when you know the parallel between this offensive line that you have now and what you had then that's BS.
Speaker 2:Doug, Come on, stop playing with the fans, man. Stop trying to play us for not smart people. All right, so that didn't sit well with me and just, you know him saying this stuff to me and it just like I said earlier, you know I severely overrated Doug Peterson and I'm starting to feel like how we rose men played more of a role into his success in that Super Bowl. Then we want to give how we rose men credit for. But those were just some quick notes. We'll get into this stuff later, as you say, throughout the season. But yeah, man, it was a very interesting press conference, to say the least.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there'll probably plenty more to break down here over the next few weeks. As you know, the staff has filled out. I don't know what kind of timeframe you'd be looking at here, jay. As far as you know, coordinators, assistant coaches, everything like that, it's not a head coaching search. So you know there, obviously there is going to be competition out there for other teams that are also seeing change when it comes to you know their staff. But I'm sure it's going to be a incredibly competitive space when it comes to filling those roles. So we will see how it goes.
Speaker 1:And you know, yeah, jay, like you said, typically we take some time off after the end of the season, but I don't foresee that fully happening. We'll probably adjust our release schedule a little bit. You know, obviously we want to release episodes as early as possible after a game, but we might move back to Friday releases. We'll see. You know, it's kind of all fluid and we kind of figure it out as we go and we appreciate y'all holding it down with us. But, jay, anything else you want to mention as we wrap up this end of year episode? That came much, much earlier than we wanted, unfortunately, but you know it is. We appreciate everybody for hanging in there with us throughout what has been a up and down season. It really doesn't even seem to explain what we went through in 2023. But anything else you want to mention to our listeners as we wrap up here tonight.
Speaker 2:No, man. We appreciate you all for joining us for the ride this year, albeit a very roller coaster like ride, and we aren't where we want to be and not talking about playoff football right now without you all listening to us. So we appreciate you all being down for the ride, gear up for an interesting offseason, as usual and as always you know. To find a podcast, spotify, apple Music or, excuse me, apple Podcast, slash iTunes and of course, you know what'll be a point of emphasis for this offseason because of how things ended. Touchdownjawarscom is the official site which we want to get some content on in terms of written stuff and, of course, archived episodes are on there as well.
Speaker 2:So thank you all.
Speaker 1:There's so much going on, jay, we didn't even mention the lady that drove into the practice facility. We didn't even mention that because there's just so much going on. We didn't even talk about someone crashing into the front of the practice facility here earlier today. I have confirmed that Jay Paul was not present, so it was not heard. You see that.
Speaker 2:Yes, I did. I retweeted that story. It's insane. They got like the front of the practice facility boarded up. I mean you don't like to laugh at the situation because somebody could have got hurt, but nobody was hurt, but everything's fine, exactly. We can laugh now because nobody was hurt. But just come on, man, I guess this isn't like an indictment of the Jax season, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I said in our group chat it was Marissa Lawrence trying to get Tripp up out there, but you know, that's all. Just, it is fun games, but yeah, because everyone is okay. But a crazy situation and what a cherry on top of to the season. But yeah, guys, everything that Jay mentioned is in the link tree. Link of our show notes, social media pages, website link to download the Seekie app. Use our promo code touchdown Jaguars. Everything you need is there and this is going to be a very, very important offseason for this franchise. People are going to get replaced, Players need to be re-signed, Everybody needs to be given out, and it will be quite interesting to see how it all plays out. But, folks, that is my co-host, James Johnson. I am Phil Smith. Thanks so much for listening to the show and do not forget to tune into the Touchdown Jaguars for every Jaguar touchdown and we will see you next week.