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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 103: Lions/Jaguars Week 11/BYE Week Analysis - Still No Coaching Change
This week, our conversation takes a hard look at the Jaguar's recent struggles, including the blowout loss to the Detroit Lions. We're not shying away from the tough topics, questioning the leadership choices made by Shad Khan and the looming uncertainty around Doug Pederson and Trent Baalke’s future roles. From discussing the team's troubling fundamentals, like tackling and game planning, to the curious case of Khan’s luxurious yet seemingly disconnected yacht, the narrative around the Jaguars' leadership is anything but smooth sailing.
Amidst these challenges, there’s a glimmer of hope as we celebrate Fred Taylor's Hall of Fame nomination. Reflecting on his career, we find moments of gratitude and humor, especially as Thanksgiving memories come into play. As we contemplate the Jaguars' draft position and their upcoming games against teams like the Jets and Raiders, we continue to hold out for brighter days with Trevor Lawrence leading the charge. It's a rollercoaster of emotions and opinions, and we’re here to ride it with you, sharing our perspectives and hoping for a turnaround in Jacksonville’s fortunes.
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James Johnson and Phil Smith bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Still running and a goal. That's it. Let's go. Touchdown Jacksonville. A hundred and nine yards Incredible Play action. Bortles Upstairs Wide open. Tommy Bohannon Touchdown Jacksonville. Looking for Jimmy in the end zone. Touchdown Jaguars. Touchdown Jaguars. Touchdown Jaguars.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. Here are your hosts, james Johnson and Phil Smith. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your co-host, phil Smith, and joining me, as always, is your other co-host, james Johnson, and Jay back here with it after a, I'll say, an unplanned week off, because we were expecting something to happen.
Speaker 1:And here we are on the afternoon of November 27th and that thing has not happened. So we're going to discuss, maybe, why that didn't happen, a unfortunate historical loss to the Detroit Lions. We'll briefly discuss that. We're going to sprinkle in maybe some good news there here in this episode, but also just kind of try to talk about, like, what is going on or the lack of things that are going on, I guess I should say, within the organization, and also look ahead, because, hey, you know, it's the end of November, almost early December, and we're, of course, discussing the NFL draft. So that is where we shine as offseason champions, repeat, offseason champions. It looks like we're heading to here in this upcoming offseason but, jay, going to be back here with you. I'm excited to hang out with you and the fam for Thanksgiving. Hope you and everybody listening had a good Thanksgiving or is about to have a good Thanksgiving as well. But regardless, man, I would be a lot more thankful if the Jacksonville Jaguars were any good at football this year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you said it, man, I wish they were as well. But, yeah, happy Thanksgiving to everybody first and foremost, and we should have this episode out around the time of Thanksgiving or maybe a little bit after. But nonetheless, happy Thanksgiving to everybody and, yeah, absolutely thankful to be in the booth with you one more time and us to continue this. It would be great, as you said, if JR Parks could just provide us some kind of good news, some kind of ray of hope, right Something, us some kind of good news, some kind of ray of hope, right, something. But maybe that's coming down the road, so maybe our Christmas wishes will be fulfilled, more so than our Thanksgiving wishes. We'll see in time, we'll tell.
Speaker 2:But yeah, as you said, man, we were kind of awaiting some news in terms of you know and this is not us getting insider information or anything but just awaiting some news of you know this is not us getting insider information or anything, but just awaiting some news of you know somebody getting fired, whether it was Doug or press or Trent Baalke, or all three or two of the three, or one of the three, you know something like that or maybe even Ryan Nielsen you could throw his name in there because the defense has been terrible as well. But we didn't get that news and that's just the journalism world for you, right? Like we as podcas. But we didn't get that news, and that's just the journalism world for you, right? Like we as podcasters, we kind of just have to adapt and go with the flow of the news flow, right?
Speaker 2:I'll never forget when we were recording a podcast and Jalen Ramsey asked for a trade as we were recording the podcast. So that's just kind of the world we live in as podcasters. But nonetheless, man, I can't wait to talk about the subjects, the topics at hand that we'll discuss and, as always, you all know where to find us at sportsgrind underscore done. At feel the Filipino, at TD Jaguars pod and touchdown Jaguars podcast dot com for our official official site, which you can find archived episodes and written content.
Speaker 1:So yeah, man, I'm ready to get to it, man yeah, as everything jay mentioned is in the link tree link in the show notes of this episode. You'll also find that link to continue using that promo code touchdown jaguars uh, save yourself 20 on seakeek on your first purchase. Maybe don't see a Jaguar game, go do something else. Maybe go see the Orlando Magic they're playing pretty well Some comedy shows coming through Jacksonville, maybe something other than the Jaguars. But hey, you know, whatever as long as you use that promo code, we very much appreciate it. But before we get into some of maybe the negative news, jay, let's start on something positive here, as fred taylor has been named a semi-finalist for the 2025 hall of fame class. Perhaps this is the year as he was announced as one of the 25 modern era semi-finalists. This would be the sixth consecutive class in which taylor has been named a semi-finalist and, of course, he advanced the round of 15 modern era finalist for the first time last year. Some of the other nominees are Colts wide receiver Reggie Wayne, former Rams and one-time Jaguar Torrey Holtz. Dallas Cowboys safety Darren Woodson. Those are some of the names that you see here.
Speaker 1:Within Fred Taylor's class, his 11,695 career rushing yards, of which 1,299 were compiled with the Patriots between 2009 and 2010,. Are 17th most in league history. Every eligible running back ahead of Fred Taylor on the list is a Pro Football Hall of Famer. So, jay we've talked about this in the past Maybe his work with Ryan Clark and the pivot will eventually help his case in getting in. But what do we think? Because obviously we had to wait a very long time, much longer than we should have had to wait for Tony Buscelli. What do we think about Fred's case here this season? Some of the other names you see on here Luke Keekly, first-time semifinalist, eli Manning, antonio Gates, anquan Boldin, jared Allen, steve Smith, sr. So definitely some notable names from our day Boy. Talk about making us feel old, right, some of these names on this list. But what do you think about his chances this year? Do you think this will finally be it or will we still be waiting? Uh, maybe another, uh, another year or two before freddie gets in?
Speaker 2:um, I'm always amongst the skeptics when it comes to getting into the pro football hall of fame, for the simple fact of how long it took bocelli to get in, which you mentioned. Now, as you said, now we're in a different era, though, than most of that process we endured with Bocelli. He didn't have a podcast to bolster his name into the conversation. Now, look, he does work for the Jaguars and you know he is on their weekly Jaguars weekly show on Monday. But that's kind of different from the pivot. Like the pivot is something that like they travel to different facilities to interview people and this is really one of the best football podcasts out there, you know, like arguably the best, and they really they really struck gold between him and Ryan Clark and Channing as well. They struck gold with that. I'm so glad. Like you know, you hate to see like breakups, but when they broke up from Brandon Marshall's podcast and decided to do their own thing, I think this was kind of what Fred had in mind. Was this podcast with Ryan, who is a great speaker and also is on ESPN? Is this podcast with Ryan, who's a great speaker and also is on ESPN, and sometimes you even, I think once we seen him pop up on first tape. You know, one time you know Ryan would bring him in on first take, or you know, put a word in for him on first take, and I think that does help him more than Bocelli. But I'm still a skeptic just because of how long it took Bocelli to get in.
Speaker 2:But look, as you said, man, when you look at the top 17 rushers, well, there is one I'm thinking that isn't in there. That's Frank Gore, because he's kind of younger than everybody else, but he'll be in there eventually too. But yeah, aside from him and Frank Gore, and I think for a little while maybe Franco Harris wasn't in there. Rip, I know we don't like the Steelers here, but a great running back, but for a little while I think Franco Harris was one of those top 15 rushers that didn't get in until a few years back. Maybe quote me if I'm wrong on that field, We'll have to research it. But he's now, at the very least, he's now in there searching. But he, he's now, at the very least he's now in there. And um, yeah, man, like it's time for Fred to get in. Whether you know, I believe he will or not, it's definitely time for him to get in and get his due.
Speaker 2:He's a guy that, if it was up to me and you, we we do everything in our power to make a case for him to that committee, right? I mean, you look at what he's done in terms of I once made a USA Today article of the top I think it was about the top 15 or 20 Jaguars to ever play right and Fred Taylor was at the top of it. It was a listicle article and the reason for that was because, to me, fred played in an era where it was very difficult to play running back. I know a lot of people throw their injuries out there and this, that and the other, but Fred Taylor played in the league at a time when it was real difficult and it wasn't a running back by committee thing when he first came into the league, right. So you know you're dealing with all of the stuff like the kind of hits that they were taking in and the kind of things they were doing. Then we'd almost like cringe at it or pass out looking at it in this day and age. And then, of course, the rules have changed over time, so it's not as much of a context as it was.
Speaker 2:But yeah, man, like if you go to the beginning part of his, you know his heyday, you know when he was a rookie and his years under Coughlin, his years under Jack Del Rio, you look at that film and you absolutely can't, like people, be astonished that this man is not a Hall of Fame Just looking at that film alone, you know. And then when Maurice Jones Drew came into the picture, that even helped his career even more, that kind of prolonged it his career even more. That kind of prolonged it and we saw some good things out of Fred. Then too, man, like some of his best runs came when MJ was there because he was fresh and that was kind of the new thing.
Speaker 2:I know you remember that back in the day feel like it started with one team and then everybody else was like maybe we should start keeping our running backs fresh, right, you remember the Cowboys had uh, they had like three guys. It was Felix Jones and I think Lord bless his soul Marion Barber and a few others, and then you know, every team had one, you know a one to punch basically is what I'm saying. So, yeah, like Fred, the end of Fred's career was kind of phenomenal too and you could use some of that to make a case for him as well. Man, I just hope the man gets in there. But I will be skeptical. And to the voters start respecting jazzville like they should in terms of, at least in terms of the old school jab wars and not the modern jab war yeah, I agree, it is unfortunate.
Speaker 1:Um, you know you kind of hope that we have turned a little bit of a page with baselli getting in, but yeah, I mean, but all those things you mentioned as far as him being on national media, him being front and center quite a bit, you know you hope that that will make a difference, but you know that remains to be seen. He certainly belongs in and will continue to bang the drum for Fred's time in that gold jacket. Listen to some of these other names Jay, again, just feeling so old. Hines Ward he's a nine-time semifinalist, but Ricky Waters, marshall Yonda is a first-time semifinalist. I mentioned Eli Manning and Luke Kuechly. Let's see if there are any other first-time semifinalists. I think that's it. But again, some of these names Anquan Bolden, willie Anderson Come semi-finalists. I think that's it. But again, some of these names anquan bolden, willie anderson, come on. Robert mathis like geez, it really feels like we were just watching this. Uh, these guys play terrell sugs, our first time semi-finalists. Like man, it just goes by so quickly.
Speaker 2:But yeah, go ahead, jay yeah, I mean, it speaks volumes that we're getting old. But, man, the good thing in all of that is man. When you reflect and when you mention all of those names, man, we really watched a great era of football. It's crazy man. Luke Keeley was as good of a linebacker as you'll find. Steve Smith, not only did he talk the talk but he backed it up. Man, like all of this stuff.
Speaker 2:You see how kids make these videos all the time and put them on Twitter or tick. Well, they put them on TikTok of their favorite receiver. You know, like Brian Thomas Jr or whatever the case may be Like, if they were doing that when Steve Smith was a receiver, you could really make those kind of TikToks off of single games from Steve Smith not just his career, but single games. You can make a whole TikTok highlight video of some of his single games. Man, I'll never forget.
Speaker 2:You know he had a run in with us, right, phil Jaguars fans, between him and Jalen Ramsey who they're cool now, by the way but him and Jalen Ramsey man, that was an epic way. But him and Jalen Ramsey man, that was a epic showdown right there between those two and Steve Smith. You know he was older at that time but still putting up good numbers, respectable numbers. You know he went with Carolina, he was with the Ravens, but still a respectable receiver that you had to be mindful of. But yeah, man, like it. That just shed some light on, like, what kind of era of football we watch, man. I'm glad we were a part of it, man, because, um, some of that stuff that we saw from the guys you mentioned won't be duplicated, I don't think at least question for you.
Speaker 1:We're kind of deviating from, uh, this episode. But I mean, let's be honest, the the jaguars are bad, so let's, let's put this off as long as we can. I don't know how much you've been keeping up with this Cam Newton stuff, about him kind of being. It seems like he's a little bit like exiled from the team when it comes to the Panthers. When you see some of his teammates on here, you know, steve Smith, sr Luke Keekley have you been keeping up with any of that? And also, do you think Cam newton is a? I don't know that he gets into the hall of fame, but I feel like he would be a guy that could get to this round of players.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm saying like modern day guys, what do you think about that? Uh, just to kind of get your your thoughts on it, and also just how, uh, you know we've talked about how tepper is probably the worst owner in the nfl and him just kind of not being involved with the panthers organization, because I feel like that's just a real bummer. You know, like how much he meant to not only the Panthers but also just what he meant to the league. It seems like people have forgotten about Cam Newton a lot quicker than they should have, and he shouldn't have been forgotten at all, in my opinion.
Speaker 2:Oh, it disgusts me, man. I mean because you know I'm a ride for any Georgia native quarterback especially. You know everybody heard me rant for Trevor Lawrence and you know Cam Noon's up there with him. You know what I'm saying From the Atlanta area and the fact that he doesn't get the respect that he deserves. Now, hall of Famer, I don't know about like Hall of Famer level, but he still is.
Speaker 2:Like I would say he's definitely influential and iconic to the game for sure, like a lot of these kids that we're seeing today are kind of, you know, based off of Cam Newton, you know, and they might not even. The crazy part is they might not even know it, because I can remember there were times, man, right, where I was watching Cam Newton back in the day and the linebackers that were hitting Cam Newton were smaller than him, right, like it was crazy man, like I don't think we ever seen anything like it at that time. Nobody that could move like he could, nobody that had the arm strength that he could. And I honestly think, like what is he? What? He's our age, he's like what? 35 something. I honestly think Cam Newton should be still in the lead right now. Obviously, the further along the way that you're from the game, your skills kind of deteriorate. He's been away from the game a while, but I don't think he should have been away from the game in the first place. Like you look at all of these quarterbacks, bro, like, and you can't tell me it wasn't a place two to three years ago, or even you can argue maybe now, if he still has his skill set, that you can't argue that it's not a place for cam newton on somebody's team, at least as a starter.
Speaker 2:You know what I'm saying. So it really frustrates me that he doesn't get the love and respect he deserves. Now I mean, I will say that our state, the state of Georgia, certainly, like Cam Newton, can do no wrong to us. Like, if you say something wrong about Cam Newton in Georgia you might get swung at, but unfortunately it's not like that for just the general culture of football. You know he is forgotten and you know, you see, like I'll never forget.
Speaker 2:Do you remember that YouTube video of the kids disrespecting Cam Newton on the sideline? That junk broke my heart, bro, because it's like Cam man. He really put Black Quarter, but not he wasn't the sole person to do it. You know you got to go back as far as like guys like Warren Moon right and guys like that but Cam Newton really did create this culture for Black quarterbacks and a standard for Black quarterbacks. That I think goes unnoticed and you can tell people, especially from this generation, didn't watch his career as much as they should, and a lot of these young cats I think they need to go back and watch him because he was a phenomenal player. A lot of these young cats I think they need to go back and watch him because he was a phenomenal player and I think once people start to do that, he'll start to get the respect that he deserves.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and granted, you know I haven't listened to the entirety of like his podcast or anything like that, just seen like clips here and there and you can just kind of see it in his eyes, you can hear it in his voice that you know he would love to be involved with the Panthers specifically.
Speaker 1:You know his voice that you know he would love to be involved with the Panthers specifically. You know, as an organization we obviously follow them pretty closely, with them being our sister franchise essentially. And, yeah, I absolutely agree with you, he should given, like, did y'all watch Tommy DeVito play quarterback over the weekend? Like you're telling me Cam Newton couldn't do at least that we have such poor quarterback play across the league and Cam Newton can't get a spot. So, um, yeah, I just wanted to get your two cents on that because you know always been a big fan of his that it's a bummer that they couldn't cap off that magical season with a super bowl, especially when you're talking about guys like not only him but also Luke Keekley. Yeah, you know, just one of those guys, again, like a lot of these guys we've just mentioned here on this list as far as cam newton goes, that will uh will always be a uh kind of one of those pillars when you talk about our nfl fandom in those early days.
Speaker 2:Go ahead, jay yeah, and you know, like he's kind of one of those guys that fits the mold of fred taylor. I don't think it'll his podcast will help him like get like a hall of fame look or anything like crazy like that, but it will help the culture and it would well. It will help um younger generations to go back and look at his stuff and like I think if a lot of younger people 20 and younger, 22, 25 and younger go back and look at cam newton man, he'd be one of these guys we were talking about actually earlier when I was saying like how the kids like to make TikTok videos of their favorite People would actually be making TikToks of like Cam Newton, like back in the day.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't know Cam Newton had this in his bag, stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like all of a sudden acting like they knew Cam Newton was like this greatness, right, cam Newton was in his bag in this game against X, y and Z or Cam Newton was a beast man, like. I think like his podcast was really helping with that. And I actually like the podcast. I've only seen a few episodes of it but I like it. I like how vocal and open he is and I also love or hate Stephen A Smith and love or hate Cam Newton as well.
Speaker 2:I love that Stephen A Smith gave Cam Newton a platform to come on first take too. I think that'll help him as well, because he's actually, if you watch him on first take and I know first take can be hard to watch but he's actually good at what he does in terms of the podcast and format and that first take, that first take argument or debate type of format and type of platform he's actually good for it, man. And you know he has the crazy, crazy fashion sense to go with it too, man, that'll like always make him stick out. So you know, I am happy that he now at least has a platform to get his stuff off and put more people on game. In terms of you know him as a person and what he did back in the day as a player.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. So appreciate y'all letting us go on this Cam Newton tangent here. But the moral of the story is put Fred Taylor in, get him into the hall, get him that gold jacket. But, jay, let's go ahead and talk about what we have been putting off, and that is, of course, the Jaguars historical loss to the Detroit Lions, fifty two to six. Their previous biggest loss also came against the Detroit Lions in their debut season, where they lost 44 to nothing. Three decades ago is how long ago that happened, jay.
Speaker 1:We watch bits and pieces of this here. I have not gotten to watch the full film. I was in Orlando for my daughter's birthday, so I was just keeping track and honestly hoping for an outcome like this because of what was hopefully going to happen after the game in the coming days, which has not happened yet, which we'll discuss here in just a moment. But you know, I did watch a little bit of the film. In the beginning they jumped out to a commanding 3-0 lead and then the Lions proceeded to outscore them 52-3 after going up 3-0. So the Lions probably the best team in football right now. I think that you have to look at them as the favorites, right up there With the Kansas City Chiefs, although the Eagles man they could be dangerous you know like half of the Eagles roster being a Georgia fan. So they're starting to put things together.
Speaker 1:But what did you see here in the loss? I mean, there really wasn't too much to write home about. I don't know if you have the box score up there in front of you, but they did not look good. It's a team that all season has just looked lost and unfortunately hasn't been able to put anything together. And for the second week in a row, trevor Lawrence again in no snaps, showing how valuable he is to this team. So yeah, jay, what were your takeaways after this, this blowout loss to the Lions?
Speaker 2:yeah, you mentioned the first thing that I was going to mention there, um, about Trevor Lawrence man, one thing that I did notice. Like you said, I didn't see the whole game, but, um, one thing that I did notice is, um, you know what a difference Trevor Lawrence makes for this already not great offense in terms of the schematics of it. Um, a lot of what I noticed is Matt Jones man. When Matt Jones puts the ball in the air, the receivers don't have a lot of opportunity to get yardage after the catch. It was even one I saw where he threw it to Evan Ingram and as soon as Evan Ingram caught it, he got tattooed by Brian Branch, who we were really high on and wanted to be a Jacksonville Jaguar. That's neither here nor there, but he got flat out tattooed by Brian Branch. And I remember watching that play and saying, like, you don't really see that stuff with Trevor Lawrence, right, you don't see our receivers taking this kind of abuse that they were taking with Trevor Lawrence. And another thing you see is Trevor Lawrence puts them in position where they can catch the ball and do some damage after the catch, especially Brian Thomas, right, we've seen it plenty of times where Brian Thomas has been streaking right down the field, can catch it in stride, not even break his stride, can keep his speed at. You know, whatever it is, he runs 22, 23 miles an hour, an hour. You know, it's so high up there it's hard to track. We need next gen stats to give us a free account. But, um, you know, he'll hit people in stride. Or even when he's hitting people on lateral routes, when, uh, trevor is hitting people on lateral routes, he's hitting them in position to keep running after the catch or protect themselves right, get down and not like get blasted by a linebacker or something like that. So that was a standout thing that I saw there.
Speaker 2:And then just the other thing was just and we kind of say this a lot, but it was really the case in this game with the fundamentals defensively. I just saw a lot of terrible fundamentals defensively. Man, like people tackling and not wrapping up and bringing their feet with them. And you know Jameer Gibbs will run for another five, six yards and everybody in a moment know that you have to tackle Jameer Gibbs with the proper technique or you're going to be in for a long day, like it's football 101. If you don't wrap up and bring your feet. He's going to keep going, maybe even embarrass you even more and take it for a touchdown.
Speaker 2:I saw stuff like that. I saw players not playing with their eyes right and not finding the ball carrier. I saw all of these out of whack mechanics, no communication, and it just made me kind of just disgusted in terms of you know, this coaching staff really pulled the wool over our eyes Like they feel this coaching staff is not doing this team any justice and it feels like this coaching staff is real fraudulent man and I've said it before with Doug and you know his crew. With Doug and you know his crew, what carried them that I didn't realize and that we now realize is that you know they had a phenomenal GM there. He no longer has that. With Trent Baalke and his showing, and you know Ryan Nielsen pulled the wool over our eyes.
Speaker 2:We were talking good things about Ryan Nielsen at the beginning of this year too, phil, I'm guilty of it, like we'll admit we're wrong. I was one of the people that said it. We see him in training camp giving people all the instructions in these technical drills. I know you can remember the one with Trayvon Walker where he's helping Trayvon Walker work on his punch and force with the punch. We're sitting there looking at that video thinking, yeah, man, he's going to have these guys right. And here we are. Nobody can tackle, nobody can play with their eyes, they're not communicating, they can't seem to get out of a rut, they don't have the mental ability to recover from what happened in Miami. It's like ever since then it's just been straight downhill and it just left me with a bad taste in my mouth and just calling that coaching staff what it is and it's a fraudulent coaching staff, man. And I hate to say that about people that work hard. But they really fooled us, man, they really did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and listen, like blowouts happen in the league. You know that's just a thing that is inevitable when it comes to the NFL. But in the way that the league you know that that's just a thing that is inevitable when it comes to the NFL. But in the way that the league is built I mean the Titans just beat the Texans right I mean, granted, listen, a whole conversation needs to be had about CJ Stroud and the Houston Texans. That a lot of people aren't ready for. But we're not gonna. You know, we're not gonna touch on that here. As you know, we'll just come off as homers. But in a league where parity is supposed to be a thing, you shouldn't be losing by 46. And yeah, you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1:We threw a lot of praise on Ryan Nielsen, as did his players. Trayvon Walker was out there in training camp and getting prepped for the season, talking about how excited they were to work under this scheme and under this defensive coordinator, and it just hasn't happened. I mean, when you have two we talked about this, I think, in the episodes about why Jacksonville should be a very appealing place when you have two bookends Trayvon Walker and Josh Hines-Allen when you have those two guys, when you bring in a guy like Eric Armstead. You know, when you have a guy like Foye, when Ventrell Miller is still up, is progressing very well, you know. You guys know how we feel about Tyson Campbell. Obviously, andre Sisco has been a huge disappointment, but when there's that type of talent like you shouldn't be getting blown out by 46 points. Bare minimum. You should be able to make it somewhat competitive. Now, I never thought we were going to win this game, but, man, 46 points is unacceptable, which makes the non-decision all the more baffling as to what has not happened yet. So I mean, it was all set up for you, right? We circled this date weeks ago as this would be the perfect time. This is when teams always do it you head into the bye week, you clean house and then you go from there and you reevaluate.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure what the thought process is here. Jay, we were actually at me and Eric, my co-host for the Way4Podcast, my other project. We were down at a sip and stroll event in downtown Jacksonville and it was called Pearls of the Orient. It was put together by Jax Filipino. Shout out to them Great time. But across the river is Shad Khan's boat and I'm thinking, man, I hope they're having these conversations right now and I just wanted to yell out and be like, hey, why haven't any of these changes been made yet? And here we are again, the day before Thanksgiving, and Doug Peterson, trent Bulkey, all these guys, press Taylor, they're all still sitting in their offices preparing for Houston and we're over here scratching our heads.
Speaker 1:I think there was a. I can't remember who put out the article. I think, jay, you said it was Rapoport about how changes are inevitable. But to make changes right now would just be like shuffling deck chairs in the Titanic, so it doesn't really have too much impact right now. What do you think? Do you think it makes any difference whether they were they fired, doug, you know, you know, a week ago, the day after a blowout, or the day after the season, and same thing with trent bulky doesn't make any difference. Or do you think, shod?
Speaker 2:well, it seems like he's just willing to kind of wait this thing out and make the changes when the season is all said and done well you, let me touch on something that you touched on that was really on my mind literally when you said it, right, and it's the whole thing about shod khan's yacht. And I want to get some off my chest with shod khan's yacht man. It looks really nuts for him to have his boat parked in the st john's river, a few blocks from the facility, and the Jaguars continue to do the stuff that they do, especially after that blowout loss put out a historic loss. And you're just blocks away from the facility, right, not doing nothing, just having caviar with Tony on the pole. Am I the only one that's not looking at it and viewing that as just insane? Man Like you're just on a vacation chilling on the St John's River and your team is putting up just just terrible, terrible showings on the field, the worst of the team's history, like the team's history, not just shot history, but we're talking about, since anybody else has owned the Jacksonville Jaguars man. So that is frustrating man, because it's like, well, what are you doing, man? I mean now look, that's not to say that the changes won't come and that changes aren't down the road, but that kind of just irks me, man, just knowing that he's right there, just blocks away, just letting them do whatever there at the road. But that kind of just irks me, man, just knowing that he's right there, just blocks away, just letting them do whatever there at the facility. Who knows what kind of discussions were had during the bye weekend this, that and the other. But I do still think that changes are coming.
Speaker 2:Because of the rap sheet article, it sounds like the sources and the people in the building and that's another thing that's awkward about it is shot, keeps letting it go on longer, and people are walking around the building like ready for this to be over, like they're literally from that article. It kind of felt like they're saying come, take us out of our misery, go ahead and fire us, man, let us go. You know, that's what it felt like to me personally. I can't speak for you or anybody else, but yeah, it sounds like they're ready to be, to have that cloud no longer hanging over their heads anymore, and they're status pending with the team. Everybody know they're going and they should be going, you know I don't know if Shaw has it in his mind, because you know he isn't a great owner when it comes to football operations to. You know, wait and see if things can get better. But that being said, man, he's hoping for something that's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:We just talked about how that defense look. Fundamentally, this team's not crawling themselves out of a hole. You can go ahead and just kill that false hope right now and start firing somebody. Now. I kind of understand the aspect of not firing Doug because of how the team is structured as a coaching staff. If you fire Doug and press, who's going to call plays? You know what I'm saying and I know that irks people and it simply shouldn't be that way. It should be somebody who's a secondary play caller and I think that used to be Jim Bob Cooter, who's not there anymore.
Speaker 2:But you know, most teams should have that backup play caller in mind because you just never know what'll happen, right, you know you never know when change will come and you know maybe a family emergency pops off or something where your OC has to take care of something or your your OC is, you know, has some kind of thing that would just keep them from being able to be at the facility for a game or something right like that. You need to have a backup plan and they clearly don't right, they clearly don't trust in the quarterback coach, mike McCoy, to make the play calls, which is insane. He was a former head coach. It's like what do you do then? Right, I mean, obviously you know you probably helped Trevor Lawrence with his mechanics and all of that, but, um, for you to not have the ability to play call plays is insane. So I understand that aspect, though, of him not firing Dubb and leaving Trevor Lawrence in limbo with the play calling situation.
Speaker 2:But at the very least, man, you could fire Trent Baalke. Here is why they talked about this all the offseason last offseason, not just offseason last offseason how they wanted to bolster the front office. They said they wanted to get an EVP. They didn't do that. That kind of shows the incompetence Right, and they just went ahead and just hired an assistant general manager instead, which was Ethan Waugh. In doing that, you have somebody in-house where you know for this this next month and a half and then December, ethan Waugh can handle things.
Speaker 2:If you fire Trent Baalke from today all the way until the end of the season, like what of significance will he have to do between then and now? I know we're looking at having the first overall pick, but nobody's going to be calling asking about the first overall pick yet because it's not set in stone. Like literally all the GM has to do at this point and this is not me like kind of underestimating what a GM does, but really right now all there is left for the GM to do for the Jacksonville Jaguars is to scout and that's pretty much it. Ethan Wall can do that. He can send people on scouting assignments. In terms of the regional scouts and all of that stuff, he could do that.
Speaker 2:You don't need Trent in the building at all. Like, at the very least, get Trent out of there. That speaks volumes to the other GMs that might be looking for him to come to Jacksonville. You know it sends a message to them and it also cools down the fan base if you fire and I put a tweet out about this field if you fire. I think if he fired Trent Baalke and kept Doug, we could live with Doug and press for the rest of the year. That would really cool the fan base down and we'll be all right until January, when you know. Of course, then you could fire, pressing the whole rest of the staff and Doug as well. No-transcript within the next few weeks is get at least get trent out of there I'll be cool if they could do that and into the rest of the season yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1:I mean, give the fan base something to rejoice in now. I mean shod khan. We've praised him quite a bit on this podcast, like he is not a unintelligent man. Right, you don't get to where you are by making a bunch of mistakes and bad decisions, but when it comes to the jacksonville jaguars and the football side of things, he has made a lot of mistakes and it would just be one of the easiest things to do now for him to say we're relieving Trent of his duties, we thank him for his time and for his efforts here with Jacksonville. We're going to look forward to moving in a new direction come the end of the season.
Speaker 1:Like you said, what is there for him to do right now? I certainly don't want him going to him and his staff going to, you know, colorado Buffalo games and scouting Travis Hunter. I don't want his team doing that. I don't want him having his eyes on whoever that top prospect. Maybe we're going to talk about the draft here in just a moment, but, yeah, bare minimum. Yeah, that's a great point that you can get rid of Trent with very little impact to the team, if any, right now. So the fact that that hasn't happened yet I think is why people are a little concerned. Have you seen anything about that report where maybe he's in Shad Khan's ear telling him that he can deliver Bill Belichick? Do you think there's any credence to that happening?
Speaker 2:well, you know, diana Rossini came out to kind of like shed some light on that and she said that and I think Diana used to cover a quote. You might can research this, but I think she used to cover the Patriots at one point in time. But, uh, diana Rossini she's now with the Patriots at one point in time, but Diana Rossini, she's now with the Athletic. I think she used to be with ESPN, because I remember seeing her on TV a lot, but she came out to say that if they brought in Belichick that he wouldn't be interested in keeping Trent. I mean, and how realistic is that? If Trent believes Bill Belichick wants to keep him with the ego that Bill Belichick has and the ego that Trent has, then Trent doesn't belong nowhere near a football organization if he honestly believes their egos could coexist. I know, you know Trent did work with Belichick some many, many years ago, but still it makes absolutely no sense for him to believe that his ego and Belichick egos could coexist. It was one more thing that I also wanted to mention. To circle back around, a shot Con firing Trent Baalke or firing somebody is. You know, as I say, I feel Con is just avoiding the inevitable, and I tweeted about this as well. From the perspective of this, this is why Shaq Khan can't keep anybody and he has to fire people. In my opinion, obviously, it's his team. He can do what he wants, but this is why he has to fire both Balki and Press Taylor, and it's because of what he did in the beginning of the offseason.
Speaker 2:You know how the old saying goes. You know you shouldn't have said that. You stuck your foot in your mouth, right? That old saying that's been around for long before me and you were born. Well, sean Cullen did exactly that when he stood up at that podium and put in an episode of the hunt for many millions of people to see, put his expectations out there on video by him saying hey, you know, this is the best team we've ever had and my expectations are high.
Speaker 2:The moment he did that, he put a lot on the organization's plate, a lot on the front office plate, a lot on the players plate, a lot on the coaches, the coaching staff plate, and the importance of that is when you say something like that, phil, and the results are what they are. You know we we lost arguably the worst. You know we had the worst loss in history and the rest of the results we've seen this year worst, you know, we had the worst loss in history and the rest of the results we've seen this year. For you to say that see those results and not do anything about it, nobody's going to take you at your word anymore as an owner, not your current regime, not any people coming looking to come in and be your GM of the future as well, because you're out here spewing stuff that you're not going to hold to.
Speaker 2:Basically, you know you're not. You basically not holding anybody accountable, so you can't say that and then, at the same time, not fire anybody, like he needs to fire everybody after saying that. So, in my opinion, like I think when he said that and them not delivering, they really have them looking real bad and I think that's gonna. You know you owners have an ego too. I think that's going to. You know owners have an ego too. I think that's going to hurt his ego and I believe that that's why he ultimately has to fire Trent and Doug is because they they really got him out here looking crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, speaking of crazy, we have to discuss this Florida Times Union article that came up yesterday and listen, you know, working with you all these years and also just very briefly dipping my toes into it. We know that journalism is very difficult. We know that these people put in a lot of work. We talk about a lot of. You know, a lot of the people that we admire obviously are very hard-working journalists. So this is no personal shot to tim walters. I've never heard of him. He probably is some sort of contributor with usa today. Slash the times union.
Speaker 1:Um, I did look up. You know he does have a few other nfl and jaguar related articles, but the title of this article is obviously what brought a lot of attention to people, uh, over on social media. The jacksonville jaguar should not fire doug peterson. No, really, here's why, and you know he brings up a lot of things such as you know it's not like doug peterson has forgotten how to coach brings up how you know the team was eight and three at one point until until he says a the Christian Kirk injury seemed to signal the death knell, when that's not true. It was the Trevor Lawrence ankle injury, even though he played through it, but that is neither here nor there. But you know mentions that he deserves some patience and deserves an opportunity to continue coaching the team with a new general manager. Look, we're not going to.
Speaker 1:We've talked about doug peterson's super bowl win with philadelphia. We've discussed how he was obviously greatly, greatly greatly benefited from the strong team building that exists within Philadelphia. I mean, look at them now again. Earlier in the year they start two and two. People are wondering what the hell is going on. And now they're eight and two Probably one of the best teams in the NFL. But here it is. Yeah, as I say to the star, it's not like he's forgotten how to coach. He's still a very good coach, is he? But he needs upgrades all around him. He's not going to make those upgrades because he again carries press Taylor around in a baby Bjorn and coddles him everywhere he goes. A good head coaches are hard to find.
Speaker 1:Yes, true, hiring a 72-year-old, bill Belichick isn't the answer Correct. Luring Detroit Lions offensive coordinator Ben Johnson is unlikely. Don't agree with him there. There will be much more attractive jobs for him to take out there. Also, an argument can be made and you did make that argument last week or a couple weeks ago. Hiring someone unproven isn't what this team needs at this moment in time. Unless the Jags are dead set on pushing all their chips in for Mike Rabel, they should clean house. But keep Doug Peterson. He brings a much-needed stability. He shouldn't be judged by this one season. He should get some leeway because of some unfortunate injuries to key players and he hasn't forgotten how to coach. Um, this obviously was doing numbers in our group chat last night, so I want to discuss it here. On the episode j, it's obviously garnered quite the response, uh, amongst the jaguar fan base. So so again, nothing personal to Tim Walters. Probably a very oh, tim Walters, sorry, nothing personal to Tim Walters. Probably a fine and decent human being. But what the hell is he talking about here, jay?
Speaker 2:Tim on a journalist, a journalist tip man. You could have saved that, tim. You're probably the veteran journalist over me, but from a younger journalist to a journalist, a veteran one, you could have really saved that one, because it did come off as if he hasn't watched the Jaguars game. First and foremost, right the stability part. Right, really, has he brought stability? I? I mean, mike Caldwell was a train wreck at defensive coordinator. We had to change coordinators after two years at the defensive coordinator position, um, and then that's when we bring in an even worse defensive coordinator than Ryan Nielsen. We didn't even know it could get worse, right, phil? When we fired Mike Caldwell it was like how, how much worse can it get? And the crazy part about it was with with Caldwell it sounded like the players kind of were calling him out where, like a lot of in practice, they kind of like had to figure stuff out their own under Caldwell. I think it was an article that came out about that and, um, yeah, that just kind of like raised a lot of questions. And then we went to Nielsen and it got worse. Man, did God prove us wrong on that about? Hey, it can't get worse. But so the stability part makes no sense, right? Also, we lost Jim Bob Cooter to the Colts I believe it was that we lost him too. That's part of what's not stable about the current group offensively. That's why press taylor's probably struggling. It's because he doesn't have that veteran guy with him to help him. Because, as we saw, when jim bob hooter was here, we were just fine as an offense right. Um, and that was kind of our argument too with bringing in frank right remember when we're having that conversation, phil, bring in frank right, a veteran play caller who has played in the NFL, like Doug has played in the NFL to help a young Press Taylor right. Because it baffles me when I see these articles, I'm going to veer away from Tim's and go to another one where they're listing Press Taylor as a future head coach or a coach to watch type of thing of thing. It's like, have you seen this man call plays, right? Like they put this on NFL network, like as a future coach to watch or offensive mind to watch or something like that.
Speaker 2:But I digress from my point. Look, tim, what Doug Peterson has done to Trevor Lawrence's career is malpractice man like it. He really hasn't helped Trevor Lawrence like we thought he should, making him learn from Press Taylor this long and not make any changes? And for all we know, changes still might not have been made. I know Doug went out and said hey, I made some in-house changes. Can we really believe that Doug Whatever man, what he's done for Trevor Lawrence's career, he's derailed Trevor Lawrence's career by by pairing him with Press Taylor for the amount of time that he has, you know, I believe Trevor Lawrence still isn't broken and does have an opportunity to be a good quarterback, but I also do believe that Press Taylor has derailed his projection and and kind of veered him off of his path a little bit for sure.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, this article made absolutely no sense, man. And my last thing is this man, like he mentions that you know Doug Peterson is a good head coach, all of this, and you know you can't find stability. But what about this, tim? What if Doug Peterson isn't head coach material? He's just a guy that got lucky, got paired up with the Eagles and Howie Roseman and a good GM there and overachieved? What if that's what it is? What if? What if Doug Peterson?
Speaker 2:I'll put it this way, this is the easy way to put this, phil what if Doug Peterson is just a really good offensive coordinator and nothing more, and I believe that's what he is. I believe he can go with Andy Reid, with the Chiefs, and win a Super Bowl right now. But if you made him function on his own as a head coach, on his own, I don't believe he'll ever be able to get back to where he was able to get back to with the Philadelphia Eagles. I think that was just something that happened because of the support and cash he had in terms of Howie Roseman. So that's the question I raised what if Doug Peterson is at best, a very good offensive coordinator and, as we've said, pulled the wool over our eyes?
Speaker 1:Let me ask you this, just to play into this scenario with tim's thoughts here say everything is relatively the same right now. Say the jaguars are two and eight, you know, and um, after the loss to detroit, doug peterson had come out and stated he had finally released or relieved press taylor. No, I know it would have to be a firing if. If he came out and stated he had finally released or relieved Press Taylor Now I know it would have to be a firing If he came out and said he has fired Press Taylor and released him from the organization. Would that make any type of difference in terms of what Tim is saying here, like, do you give Doug a little bit more time? I don't think so. People can't see, but you're nodding your head. I agree with you, but do you think that would make any difference in giving Doug a little bit more runway with this thing?
Speaker 2:For me it wouldn't. No, it's a little too late for that, and here's why. So this is to make a comparison of it feel, of how good coaches function and smart coaches function. So this guy that we've been praising for a very, very long time, and Dan Campbell, we just praise this team because they beat the brakes off of us in a historic win or gave us a historic loss. Dan Campbell, in his first year with the Detroit Lions he had Anthony Lynn, was his offensive coordinator his first year with the Lions, and it didn't take very long for Dan Campbell to realize that year, his first year as a head coach, to realize, hey, something's not right.
Speaker 1:Started one and eight. Right, I think they started one and eight, something like that.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Something's not right. I got to get rid of this guy. I have to. I respect him, love what he's done for me and all of that good stuff, but it's not clicking. It's not clicking for the offense. It's not working.
Speaker 2:He fired Anthony Lynn within before the season could end his first season could end and look how that turned that franchise around for the better. Those are the kind of coaches that know how to make the right decisions at the right time and that turn things around. And the crazy part about it was he had a guy in ben johnson waiting in the wings that had already been with the lions organization, you know, for years before dan campbell came. By the way, people forget that part. Ben johnson was already there but he and dan campbell knew each other because I I would know studying coaching trees. He and dan campbell knew each other because I would know studying coaching trees.
Speaker 2:He and Dan Campbell knew each other from years and years and years of working together at Miami with the Dolphins. So Dan Campbell actually came into the organization after Ben Johnson and he saw the potential in Ben and he saw like how long Ben had been with the Dolphins and how long he had been with the Lions gave him an opportunity of a lifetime, and Ben Johnson has a little back sense and of course, you know it helps that they got Jared Goff eventually down the road as well. I don't think they started with Jared Goff when he first got there. When Dan Campbell first got there, I think they traded for him in like year two or something.
Speaker 2:But you know, I'm just saying just to put things into perspective and compare it. Right is you have a guy that wanted to do what was best for the team and put, you know, the responsibility of doing what's best for the team and Dan Campbell by firing Anthony Lynn, while you have Doug Peterson who selfishly hangs on to Press Taylor who he believes is his, you know, understudy or protégé, or whatever the case may be. When you look at those two different perspectives right there, that alone speaks volumes as to why Doug Peterson no, it's a little too late for that. You should have did that maybe last year.
Speaker 1:You know, maybe I'll give him some some runway if he did last year, but nah, it's too late now yeah, I agree, the time to make that change would have been at the end of last season, acknowledging your mistake. Like you said, dan campbell, it's so frustrating whenever we play the lions too, or just watching the lions in general, because that is who jacksonville should be like. They had these turnarounds at very similar times, right with dan campbell and then bringing doug peterson in. Both of them make the postseason. Obviously the lions have had a little bit more success getting to the nfc championship game.
Speaker 1:But you know, with the way that obviously traven walker, aiden hutchinson are tied together, you know you're talking about a former number one overall pick in jared goff. Now I think you know we we would agree that talent wise trevor lawrence is is a better quarterback than Jared Goff. But hey, jared Goff's been to a Super Bowl, he's been to multiple NFC Championship games, he is a winner and we'll hopefully see that this year. I definitely am rooting for them for the remainder of the season. But it's always so frustrating watching the Lions and seeing how well they have handled things, especially when you talk about a team.
Speaker 1:The Lions may be the only other team in the league. I think maybe you could maybe throw the Browns in there, but I think I mentioned this before the Lions are probably the only other team in the league that have been managed worse than the Jaguars prior to the current regime season. When you talk about the years of ineptitude, mishandling not only a guy like calvin johnson but also barry sanders like mishandling top I think argument can be made top 25 players in nfl history. You've had two of them on your team and they totally mismanaged them, and to see how they've made that turnaround now, um, it's disheartening. Uh, great for Lions fans and again I've mentioned this before, they were my first NFL fandom, but it's very, very disheartening to watch on our side of things. Anything else you want to mention, jay, on the coaching side and in terms of that, before we talk about our very last topic and wrap up for the week, nah, man, that's.
Speaker 2:That's all I got to say. Man, this has been a great episode, went a lot better than we thought. We came into it thinking we were going to discuss a historic loss and it went way better than expected.
Speaker 1:But nothing else to add, man, yeah, I'm sure we will. Well, I know for a fact we'll continue to have these discussions here as far as coaching over the last five weeks of the season. But to pivot to the final discussion, we're going to have here speaking on the last five weeks of the season. But to pivot to the final discussion, we're going to have here speaking on the last five weeks of the season. Jay, as of right now correct me if I'm wrong the Jaguars still hold the number one overall pick in terms of the draft order, even though they do share the same record with the Giants and the Las Vegas Raiders. Now they have an opportunity here because they play a couple of the teams that are currently picking within the top seven. So we play Las Vegas, we play Tennessee again, uh, twice. Actually, we play Tennessee twice, right, yeah, they play Tennessee twice and they also play the jets. Those teams two and nine, a couple of them are three and eight, and you brought up a.
Speaker 1:An interesting conversation is is is there an opportunity here for the jaguars to play themselves out of the number one overall pick? Now, listen, obviously we know what our track record is against tennessee, no matter what the rosters look like, uh, when they played houston fairly well earlier in the year in a game they probably should have won Now. Granted, all of this is coupled with an asterisk, because if I'm Trevor Lawrence, I certainly want to shut it down for the year. I know he has been practicing, but there are winnable games on this schedule, especially when you look at the Jets and the Raiders. I mean honestly, four out of these five games are winnable, right, jay? And even Houston is kind of in a weird spot right now. At seven and five, they all of a sudden find themselves in a divisional, maybe, race with Indianapolis, who has started to look a little bit better.
Speaker 1:So what do we think here? Because obviously we've circled Travis Hunter and we've already started pairing him with Trevor Lawrence, with Brian Thomas Jr or, if you want to put him in the defensive side, pairing him with Tyson Campbell. Are you a little worried here? They may rattle off some victories and find themselves maybe even picking outside of the top five, because if you beat some of these teams, you hold that tiebreaker and all of a sudden you're no longer picking number one. What's your level of concern here that they could fall into some victories? All of the new york jets a couple years ago when they had a chance to take trevor lawrence and you know, frank gore became the legend here in jacksonville right, right, and they still need to build that statue for them, right?
Speaker 2:um, I would say out of 10, about a 4.5. Just looking at, um, what I saw today, for example, when I was watching us against the lions just the tackling mechanics that we like, we're fundamentally just screwed up. And when you're fundamentally screwed up like that, you leave the window open for a lot of losses. And another thing, too, is you know, the Jaguars don't know how to win. Right, the Jaguars can very well have the lead at some point in the first or fourth quarter of these games that you mentioned, and my probability of them losing the game is 85, because they done it time and time again under Doug Peterson this year. It's been time like we really should have a better record than we do feel, and part of the reason that we don't is because we, we give up the last drive. Basically, you know what I'm saying, like that's what it comes down to. So you know when I look at it from that perspective. And the terrible tackling mechanics, right, and look, they said they made some tweets here within the coaching staff and some changes. We'll see if they really make a difference. But between the tackling issues, between the lack of communication, uh, between just where our defense ranks in general, I would say I put it at a 4.5 in terms of where my concern lies. But I think in all honesty we can secure that pick. I never felt. I mean, I may have said it a few times in the podcast and predictions, but I never feel good playing the Titans, you know. And then you got Calvin Ridley kind of kind of showing up a little bit now you know what I'm saying like and he's definitely you know how players say oh I don't look at tweets, this. That he definitely looks at the tweets and it's something definitely fueling him for the two games we played him. So I wouldn't be, I wouldn't be shocked if he was the player that did numbers on us, which is how our look is going.
Speaker 2:The Texans although, as you said, they're kind of in that weird area right now they're still, even with CJ Stroud, not looking the best they still are capable of beating us. So I wouldn't really worry about that one turning into anything. The only ones you really worry about is like maybe that Raiders one because they're down to like their third quarterback, desmond Ritter. We could win that one perhaps. But the other games I don't really see any wins, even with the Jets and Aaron Rodgers. You know Aaron Rodgers is no longer the guy that we've grown to watch over the years, but he's still good enough to beat us right, so I I think we still can secure it. I'm not concerned that we dropped the ball on this yeah, I definitely am not too worried about them.
Speaker 1:Uh, winning those titans games. Like you said, calvin really certainly pays attention to what has been said and, uh, you know I'm sure arden key is in his. Arden key is still on the. Uh, the titans, right? Uh, it's. We don't really hear that name very often but you know I'm sure they bond over. Uh, you know their time here in jacksonville.
Speaker 1:Um, the raiders, I definitely don't think we are very good. Um, that would be one that maybe I would circle. Um, gardner minshu, I believe, is also out for the remainder of the year, from what I recall. But the Jets are in shambles. They may even man. Wouldn't it be something if they shut down Aaron Rodgers for the year and just admit their mistake? Who knows what's going to happen there?
Speaker 1:Honestly, the most Jaguar thing to happen and the most Texans thing to happen would be for them to win this weekend here at home against a, a good team, and then, you know, lose those remaining games to secure their spot. So I'm not too concerned right now about anybody but Las Vegas, because I think they could win that game in Las Vegas. But the rest of the teams, I can see them, I could definitely see them winning. I mean, the jets are bad but their their roster on paper is still pretty solid, like I could see, you know, garrett wilson, breeze hall, coming in and having a game um against them here at home. So definitely a little concerned, but I would also put it at like a five out of ten right now. So we will see.
Speaker 1:Is there any order of those teams when you look at, like the Giants in Las Vegas? I mean because they may go quarterback, so you may only have to secure the number two overall pick because I can see Vegas or the Giants going Shador Sanders at number one. I don't think Shador Sanders and a lot of people have said this I don't think he's the best player in the draft, but obviously a quarterback is going to be top priority for those two teams. Do you think they would be okay if they were to pick two or even three?
Speaker 2:yeah. So I heated up the good old tankaduncom to look at the draft order. So, uh, yeah, looking at it. Yeah, new york and las vegas, those are two teams that, if they jump ahead of you in the draft order, yeah, I think we're good there in terms of them not taking a quarterback. What you have to kind of be concerned with is do they trade out of those picks which I don't think they would, by the way, because you know you have a new coach in Antonio Pierce in Las Vegas who probably is going to bang the table to get a quarterback because he knows how important that is for his career and stay in there. Because we already have said, you know how coaches, african-american coaches and just coaches, minority coaches don't have a lot of leeway when it comes to these job opportunities. So when you're in the front of the draft order, you kind of, if you're one of those coaches, you kind of have to prance on that opportunity to get a quarterback.
Speaker 2:So I don't I'm not concerned that they would trade back the Giants. They just let go of Daniel Jones, right, and you would think Joe Sheen is going. If he's, he's going to stay the GM, I think. But I think Joe Sheen is definitely going to get that talk from the Giants owner Like hey, you got this year to clean it up, buddy, and if you don't, we're letting you go. So I can see them drafting a quarterback, even though when you're in that weird area where you got one year to fix it, sometimes you want to hinge on getting a veteran quarterback. So you got to kind of worry about it with the Giants, but I still think they get a rookie, or what they could do is get a rookie and a veteran Right and that way that'll help you secure the short term and long term future.
Speaker 1:You know what's crazy, though, about the Giants and getting a veteran Jay. They have one. They have Drew Locke, and they're not playing him. I forgot about him, I forgot bro, and they played Tommy Cutlets.
Speaker 2:Right. So yeah, that would would you mention. In that field I think they definitely would probably get a rookie. I mean, I know they've done it already, been there, done it with Daniel Jones. But I think and then like another thing to factor in, what's their salary cap looking like? They probably might have to get a rookie if they're not in great cap shape.
Speaker 1:Just paid Brian Burns in that trade, so, yeah, they probably have some Malik Neighbors is also on a rookie contract, so that helps too. And that was the whole thing about yeah, yeah, they probably have some Malik neighbors is also on a rookie contract, so that helps too. So, and they didn't. And that was the whole thing about them not resigning. Saquon right is they wanted to save some money, so they probably got some leeway, you know.
Speaker 2:Right To play devil's advocate here, or just my cure? Well, I'll just say this my curiosity, Pete what's the free agent list looking like for quarterbacks? Do you like? Off the top of your mind?
Speaker 1:I can pull it up. Hold on here. Uh, let's see here upcoming free agents. Well, um, oh, you know what. That's 2024, so let me pull up next year. Sam darnold that's basically the only justin fields, and maybe you know Russell Wilson, if those two hit the market again. You know Other than that, you're looking at names like Zach Wilson, trey Lance Jameis, winston Mac Jones so not really a lot of names on here. Jimmy Garoppolo yeah, not a lot of notable names on here. Marcus Mariota the typical guys you see on this list. Jacoby Brissett Start getting names like that.
Speaker 2:A lot of those names scream get one of those top veterans you named and still get the rookie. I think as long as those two teams are ahead of us, we're good. I wish that would kind of be fun from the perspective of like beating the Texans and it not really costing you anything. Like you said Right, like I would like to shut them up. You know what would be great, honestly and this is just selfishly.
Speaker 1:You know, what would be hilarious is if the colts and anthony richardson win this division and we get to shove it in boogie's face and we're not even he has made us anthony richardson fans and you know, and you know how we feel about gators and I ultimately don't think that anthony richardson is going to be very good, but I think it would be hilarious to watch anthony richardson and the colts win this division and steal it from up under the Houston Texans.
Speaker 2:We've always said it, phil His talent scares us, and I don't mean like scares us in terms of what he could. It scares us from this perspective.
Speaker 1:I think his ceiling, I think, is like isn't too high, but he can make the prerequisite plays every once in a while to beat you. I think that's what it is.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, he could be a. He could be an issue for the Jaguars. I'll put it that way. That's where his talent scares us. He could really. If he put it all together, he could be an issue for the Jaguars. So yeah, man, I mean, yeah, we could kind of show that would be dope, but we'll see.
Speaker 1:And for Caleb Williams and the Bears to keep losing and for Anthony Richardson to be in the playoffs. He would. He would lose it. What a Christmas it would be. But yeah, anything else you want to mention on this episode as we wrap up again this pre-holiday episode, this will probably come out on the Friday after Thanksgiving. I'm going to try and get it edited as soon as possible. But anything else you want to mention before we wrap up and then focus on the next game, I guess, and see what changes, if any, are going to be made before the season is actually over.
Speaker 2:Nah, nothing else to add. Man, a good quality episode went way better than I thought. As I said earlier, man, I thought I was going to kind of be miserable during this episode, but it kind of went in a different direction from that. But yeah, all of that said man. Um, as you all know, in every episode you know where to find us at sportsground, underscore dunn, at field of filipino, all on twitter. Uh, we might migrate to blue sky. That's another thing. Like people need to come up with a concrete date for us all to go to blue sky. Like, come up with a date. Uh, those are already set up. So if y'all want to follow us, it's the same thing as on twitter. Um, wwwtouchdownjadwarscom is the official site and, of course, you can go ahead and check out our sponsor seat geek. Get yourself some tickets to whatever sports event or event. You need to get tickets to use our promotion code touchdown Jaguars.
Speaker 1:That's right, and everything once again is in the link tree, link in the show notes of each and every episode. But, folks, that is my cohost, james Johnson. I am Phil Smith. Do not forget to tune into touchdown Jaguars for each and every Jaguar touchdown and we'll see you next time. Happy Thanksgiving, happy Holidays.