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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 97: Texans/Jaguars Week 4 Analysis - Head Coaching Candidates for the Future
Is Doug Pederson's tenure with the Jaguars already in jeopardy just a few weeks into the season? Join us on the Touchdown Jaguars podcast as we dissect the team's ongoing struggles, focusing on their latest heart-wrenching loss to the Houston Texans. We kick off with raw reactions to the Jaguars' winless record heading into October, an unexpected scenario for a team that had higher hopes. We scrutinize head coach Doug Pederson's controversial post-game comments and explore whether they are creating internal friction. Our in-depth discussion also brings forth potential coaching candidates who might revitalize the Jaguars' energy and management style.
Our analysis continues with a deep dive into the defensive lapses and missed opportunities that plagued the Jaguars during their recent defeat. Key performances are highlighted, such as Tank Bigsby's remarkable 58-yard run and the increased targeting of Brian Thomas Jr. and Christian Kirk. Despite these efforts, the team's inability to capitalize on crucial moments, compounded by defensive lapses against CJ Stroud, left fans in dismay. Praise is given where it's due, with standout performances from Ventrell Miller and Monteric Brown, but the bigger question remains: can the Jaguars iron out their defensive scheme issues before it's too late?
Finally, we turn our attention to Doug Pederson's puzzling coaching decisions and their broader implications for the team. From the mishandling of Tank Bigsby's potential to Trevor Lawrence's mechanical struggles, we cover it all. We also ponder potential replacements for Pederson, while debating the urgency of making coaching changes. As we look ahead to a challenging stretch of games, the timing of these decisions could make or break the Jaguars' season. Tune in to explore the frustrations, solutions, and the road ahead for the Jacksonville Jaguars.
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James Johnson and Phil Smith bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. Here are your hosts, james Johnson and Phil Smith. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your co-host, phil Smith, and joining me, as always, is your other co-host, james Johnson, and Jay.
Speaker 1:We are sitting here on the evening of September 29th, a few hours removed from the Jacksonville Jaguars falling to 0-4 in the season, after yet another loss to the Houston Texans and a game that was in hand, a game that they had the lead in the fourth quarter, a majority of the fourth quarter actually, and, as they say, they snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. And, jay, I think it was, maybe it's like a little bit over a month ago, we sat here in these chairs that we're sitting in now and we predicted and hoped that, heading into next week's game against the Indianapolis Colts at home the homecoming game you know they'll be decked out in those fresh throwback uniforms. There'll be throwback merchandise in the crowd, everybody will be celebrating the Jaguars legends that will be on hand, hoping that they would be bare minimum two and two heading into that game. Instead, we are still windless heading into the month of October, which is something we certainly did not foresee. But maybe we should have. I don't know, maybe the signs were all there and once again fell into the optimism trap that is the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Speaker 1:So, man, well, we're going to, of course, discuss the game which, jay, you haven't seen all of. I know you saw bits and pieces. I was able to watch the entire game here today and then we're going to continue the discussion from last week where we talked about general managers. We're also going to talk about coaches here today, as you can probably see in the title of this episode. And, yeah, I'm just sitting here with I don't know apathy, I guess, just not really knowing how to feel. I mean, the head coach doesn't really seem to care, so if he doesn't give a crap, then why should we? We're definitely talking about the current head coach of the Jacksonville Jaguars and maybe how long we think he should stick around. But, yeah, jay, I'm interested to see what kind of energy we bring here today, because, yeah, I'm just at a loss of words at this point Again, heading into October, still winless, certainly not where we thought we would be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely not where we thought we would be. Yeah, absolutely not where we thought we'd be. Even if you like the biggest cynic, right, you know, maybe you could say we were a little bit more optimistic than others. But even if you were the biggest cynic, right, you were expecting a win or two at this point, right? And yeah, yeah, some interesting postgame activities from Doug Peterson there, who is visibly frustrated and feels like you know he's he's kind of throwing people under the bus.
Speaker 2:It's funny, you know what, phil, because I was saying this for the week. One loss, right, is that? You know basically what he said. You know the coaches can't go out there and make the plays for them, but that does not mean the coaches say it, right, football is the ultimate game of accountability. Ij, the podcaster can say that, right, because that's what we're supposed to do here is be critical. But, peterson, the coach can't say that publicly, right, you, you go through that discussion in practice and you know all of that good stuff, but to say it publicly feels like you're throwing your team under the bus. And how do they respond to that? Right? You know I'm saying that is bound to cause some friction, probably, if there isn't already friction within the locker room, but you know how are they supposed to respond to that and how are they supposed to play for you as a coach after comments like that? You know, it was interesting, to say the least.
Speaker 2:But all of that said, we will get into some candidates that would probably handle this situation a little better than Doug has. Right, I will talk about that. And, as you said, um, you know you did get to see the game, as I didn't, I was at work. But, uh, we'll go into a little bit of the game. I guess we'll follow the trend of last week, just kind of briefly going into the game, because, like I mean, hey, what can you say at this point? Um, and then, as you said, man, we'll look to the future and and getting a coach in here that knows what to do way better than Doug Peterson does.
Speaker 1:so let's get to it yeah, which shouldn't be that hard at this point in terms of how Doug has come. Just I don't, I don't even know what to say about the state of his, his attitude, the way that he's feeling and you know everyone's upset after a loss. There is nothing wrong with that and things obviously haven't gone the way that any of us thought they were going to go, and you are allowed to be irritated. But yeah, like you said, jay, there are just some things you can think them when you're in that kind of spotlight, but you certainly cannot say them. And Doug Peterson is out here giving us absolute nonsense, and we'll talk about that here in just a moment. A shout out to my co-host from the Wait For it podcast, eric Cerna, tagging us on a question from Doug's presser today post game. And yeah, we'll talk about all that here in just a moment welcome in, yeah real quick, something real quick, man.
Speaker 2:Uh, I want to hear your like, your thoughts on this, uh, as well. But, like, if you're doug, like, also part of this is, as you said you're, it's okay to be frustrated we all are and you know who would be more frustrated than the head coach, right? The guy that spent all of this time and effort into offensive scheming and training camp and all of that, and it's just not working out. But one thing that came to mind that I wanted to ask you too, though, phil, if you're Doug, you got to be thinking about the future in terms of, you know, finding work elsewhere, right, a lot of times, what will happen is these coaches they'll end up. You know finding work elsewhere, right, a lot of times, what will happen is these coaches, they'll end up. You know, getting fired and being a coordinator somewhere or a consultant or something.
Speaker 2:But, like, if you're Doug, that probably wasn't the smartest thing to do, because you know you look at who he has ties to and where he could go next probably the Chiefs, right, being an Andy Reid disciple. You know how does Andy and the other organizations look at that and say like, hmm, like, do we want to bring him back into the mix. You know what I'm saying. So, like I wanted to ask you, like, is that something that you you would have done, knowing that, and not only that, but do you think, like just how Doug has handled things in general here, especially with the losing, do you think that we obviously know he probably won't be a head coach again, but do you think, like this is going to hurt him in terms of looking for work as a coordinator or with another organization?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it could, because you know this is now. This will now be two places. It could, because you know this is now. This will now be two places where, for whatever reason, he is just committed to his best friend, press taylor and this is something that showed itself in philadelphia and he didn't win a super bowl here. Yeah, he took us to that amazing playoff run, but that ain't no super bowl, right, and they kicked him out of town after winning a Super Bowl.
Speaker 1:So if it's not Andy Reid and obviously you know they're pretty set they're doing just fine without Doug Peterson right now. So why would you know, andy? You know maybe something like you said, like a coordinator, you know, or something like that, and I don't see because I don't see Matt Nagy getting another head coaching job elsewhere either. So you know he's not going to be like offensive coordinator so they can bring him in like consultant, like you said, some sort of position coach, I don't know. But yeah, I mean, maybe if you're Doug Peterson, you just don't necessarily care anymore. You know, maybe he goes like the college route or something like that. But there's going to be enough evidence and sentiment out there, both public and behind the scenes that we don't even see, that when things start going the wrong way, doug Peterson, even though he says I'll take responsibility, he's going to lay the blame on top of everybody else. And I can't remember who said it I think it may have been Cap, who mentioned it over on Twitter. Yes, trevor Lawrence, he's not playing up to the contract that we gave him. But you know what Trevor Lawrence isn't doing? He's not walking up to the podium post-game pressers and being a little baby about it and baby, that's not the term I want to use to describe Doug right now. So at least Trevor Lawrence who, again we've talked about, who has been prepped for this moment to be the face of a franchise and knows he's going to be front and center when it comes to any type of blowback or when the team starts losing. He knows he is going to be at the top of that list, at the top of that list, but he's not going out in front of the media and rolling his eyes, you know, and acting like everything else is someone else's fault but his. So, yeah, maybe he just doesn't care. Maybe, again, like you said, he knows he has that security elsewhere.
Speaker 1:In terms of the Andy Rietri, I'm sure he's got friends all over the league, but, yeah, I'm sick and tired of him, man, it's time for him to go. And, uh, you know, I want to ask you a question about how long that should take and when that should take place. If, uh, you know, if there is going to be a change, I'll. I'll ask you about that a little bit later, but really quick though and I know we're a few minutes into the episode that I want to shout out any brand new listeners or returning listeners to the podcast and make sure you check out the link tree link. In the show notes of this episode you'll find social media pages, the website touchdown jaguarscom, as well as the link to download the cgap and use our promo code touchdown jaguars. But yeah, jay, let's go ahead and get into this here. As far as the game, um, what we can discuss, like you said, you didn't really get to see too much of it. I know, know, you've seen bits and pieces here and there, but I want to make sure that we at least discuss the game A small bit for our listeners here, and those of you that are listening, of course, know at this point the Jacksonville Jaguars fell to the Houston Texans 24-20 in a game that they were very competitive in and we were thinking, okay, maybe a division opponent was what they needed to get back on track.
Speaker 1:They were targeting Brian Thomas Jr quite a bit more, which is something that I talked about earlier in the season, as well as a bunch of other people within the fan base. Trevor Lawrence 18 of 33, 169 and two touchdowns. Tank Bigsby had a great game seven carries, 90 yards, including that 58-yard run later in the game I believe it was in the third quarter which ultimately they could not capitalize on. We'll talk about that in just a moment. Travis Etienne 11 carries, 50 yards. Btj 6 catches, 86 yards and a touchdown. Christian Kirk 7 catches, 61 yards and a touchdown as well, and it really seemed like they were focused on getting Brian Thomas Jr and Christian Kirk involved early and often 21 targets between those two players.
Speaker 1:Defensively, ventrell Miller man I'm sure, jay, you saw people talking about him on social media. What a great day for him and Buster Brown, monteric Brown, also having a great day, and we saw Ventrell Miller have a really good preseason, have a really good camp, and that is showing up when he gets his opportunity. Obviously, devin Lloyd was a late scratch, right before the game we found out he wasn't going to be playing. Foye put on IR. And then Monteric Brown, chad Mumma, those guys taking advantage of their opportunities, but ultimately it just did not matter. They could not make those stops towards the end of the game. Some play decisions for instance not being able to get into the end zone after that big tank, bigsby run going forward on fourth and goal and failing the secondary couldn't stop Nico Collins and listen, they're completely depleted. But you know you hope that you have a guy in Ryan Nielsen that can at least scheme around that. And it just did not seem to happen. That can at least scheme around that. And it just did not seem to happen.
Speaker 1:Cj Stroud 27-40, 345, and two touchdowns. They couldn't really get the running game going. Held them to under four yards a carry and just over 101 yards total. And yeah, daria Gumbawale, an old friend here of the Jacksonville Jaguars, ended up scoring the go-ahead touchdown with not much time left. It was like under 30 seconds, something along those lines. But Jay, touchdown with not much time left. It was like under 30 seconds, something along those lines. But Jay, again, I know you didn't get to see all of the game, but from what you have seen, and what you've seen as far as the discourse online, what are your initial thoughts about this loss? You know, once again a win that got away from them and something they and and something that could have turned around possibly the momentum of the season if they were able to get a win against the Houston Texans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you would like to see and I did get to see the parts where the Jaguars took the lead and a little bit of the game before heading into halftime. You would like to see them finish that. You know what I'm saying. When they got the lead and they just weren't able to do it, a lot of what I saw was they really struggled defensively, I mean offensively. They didn't score a lot of points either, obviously, but defensively, man, it felt like every time I was able to tune into the game, right, that CJ Stroud, who I said was the best quarterback in his draft. Remember that, guys. But every time CJ Stroud dropped back into the pocket, you know he was making a completion at least eight yards down the field. Whatever the case may be at ease, and you know I get it.
Speaker 2:You know I kind of talked about this last week, right, with Tyson Campbell and Savage being out, but having two key players like that out of the game shouldn't make a defense this bad. If you have the right scheme right, we've talked about it before With the right scheme, you know you can throw a, even though he's on injured reserve. I'm just using him as an example. You could throw a Dewey wing guard in there for two games, right, and get away with it and make some wins with the right scheme, or have some wins you could throw you know this player or that player that doesn't start in there for two games and you know, get by with it and be okay, right. But it seems like with this scheme, if you miss one guy or two guys, two of your star players, that's it. You almost have no chance, right, and again, like the completion just came at will. And I think what little bit of the game I did see as well is what helped the Jaguars stay in this game was also the Texans had a boatload of penalties too. So the Texans didn't do themselves any favors. They kind of helped the Jags there and they still weren't able to take advantage of it. But overall, that's just how I kind of felt, like I just got tired of like when I was watching the game, just seeing how easy the completions were and seeing how easy they let the Texans offense off of the hook. When the Texans offense, you know had a self-inflecting wound. Whatever the case may be a holding call or illegal shift they always let the Texans off the hook, for the most part defensively, as you said, ventrell Miller, which I put in our text thread. Ventrell Miller did look good from the plays that I did see.
Speaker 2:It's always good to see a young talent, even though he's a former Gator. I don't like to give them too many props, but it's always good to see a young player, at least somebody out there playing with some fire and passion to make you look forward to the future, because we're going to be without Foyer for a long time and we just kind of are beat up on defense in general. So I did like what I saw out of him and he'll be one of the players that I'll be watching heading forward Because, as you said, we couldn't help but notice him in the preseason. We talked about him and now it's translating.
Speaker 2:And when you talk about these head coaches, they're going to need a defense somebody for, or they're going to need a leader, somebody for the young crew to rally around, because you know they're probably going to have to get younger With a new regime. You know they start cleaning house and Ventrell, you know, has to be one of those guys you kind of put your eyes on. It's like is he the leader of the new school for this team. You know him and Jari and Jones and so on and so forth.
Speaker 1:We'll see in time we'll yeah I'm glad you brought up the penalties, jay. Uh, 12 penalties for 93 yards, laramie tunsell committing a lot of those on the houston texan side, and this is one of those times I wish we had, like, one of those espn researchers you know what I mean. Like I'd like to know what the percentage is in terms of winning percentage when a team's opponent has that many penalties for that many yards. Like you said, houston was giving them opportunities and they just could not take advantage of them. I mean, listen, nico Collins is a great player to 12 catches, 151, like I said, in that touchdown they're decimated. But again, as far as the secondary. But, like you said, a couple players out should not do that to a defense when you're scheming up against who is one of the best quarterbacks in the league in CJ Stroud. So they certainly had the opportunity.
Speaker 1:I did like that and a lot of people liked that they were targeting and getting Brian Thomas Jr involved early. Same thing with Christian Kirk. Obviously he's gotten off to a slow start. But one thing, jay, that totally confuses me, and this is mentioned. You know we talked about this before we got started. A CBS article came out this morning about what could happen in terms of changes coming to the Jaguars if they continue to struggle and why it may be difficult for them to get rid of Doug Peterson and Press Taylor. We'll talk about that maybe a little bit later.
Speaker 1:But heading into this game, they were averaging 5.4 yards a carry, third best in the league behind the Ravens and the Packers, but they had the fourth fewest rushing attempts in the league. Heading into this game Now, they ended up with 24 carries, 158 yards, averaging 6.6 yards a carry. As a team, jay, tank Bigsby had a great game. Travis Etienne, even though he was a little banged up, still came in and produced, and late in the game after that I've said this in the group chat, jay after that long run.
Speaker 1:And then they tried to give Tank you know those carries to try and get in the end zone and finish that drive off. I don't know that. We saw him after that, maybe once, maybe twice, I don't know. I feel like I'm being courteous by throwing two times out there, but when they had the opportunity to kind of put the game on ice, they went, I think short run, incomplete pass, incomplete pass and then punt and it took like 45 seconds off the clock. This is a running football team, jay right, we talked about it a couple weeks ago like maybe they need to air it out a little bit more, be a little bit more vertical. They're a running football team with this tandem right With Tank and ETN.
Speaker 2:That baffles me as to why you would go away from something that was working so well for pretty much the entire game away from something that was working so well for pretty much the entire game. Yeah, it is confusing and you put all of this time and effort this is what is even more confusing about it. You put all of this time and effort into, you know, doug Peterson and the crew. They were practically begging Tank Bigsby to take that next step in training camp, right, because he kind of got off to a slow start in training camp and you would hear them mention him in the press conferences and how much they needed out of him and how much they needed him to improve, and they don't utilize him as they should. I mean, that's always been a thing with Doug Peterson offenses right, me and you have talked about this plenty of times on this podcast is what won him the Super Bowl is he had a bunch of running backs that he could rely on throughout the whole season. It wasn't just one guy, it was like two, three, four, five guys that he could rely on. That helped him get through those tough moments and it feels like since he's come to Jacksonville, he doesn't want to rely on the run as much as he once did. He doesn't want to rely on the run as as much as he he once did.
Speaker 2:And it's puzzling and confusing to me, because the run game to me is a key part, and we'll talk about this with some of the you know, head coaching candidates who have a a a greater belief in the run game. But a key part of the run game is establishing it, and what have you can uh, what have you can help your young quarterback right that's what helps Trevor Lawrence get out of that slump of missing wide open receivers is establishing the run and what have you. So their lack of love for the run game has just been puzzling just all together, like just the ability to not utilize it as much as they should, and also, again, like just it's crazy, like they just put all of this time and effort into just wanting Tank Bixby to take that next step. And now that we're here, it's a different story, all the more of another reason for this coaching staff to be fired, because nothing makes sense with them at all yeah, I don't get it, man, like you said, they invested this draft pick and tank bigsby last year.
Speaker 1:He has a, admittedly, I think he would admit probably not a very good year, and now he is looking like we got uh, and obviously this is an extreme, but like we got a, you know, obviously this is an extreme, but like we got a, you know a. Fred Taylor, maurice Jones drew duo in the backfield and they don't want to give him the football. Seven carries, tank Bigsby, 11 carries, travis, etn. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense. And, like you said, as far as Trevor, you know, missing those passes and not trusting his protection, like why would he? You know? We talked about that in our group chat today why would Trevor believe in his protection when he's, in the last couple of years, just been getting thrown around? Because, like we talked about last week, or like you talked about last week, trambolke is incapable of putting together a competent offensive line. And I haven't seen the numbers today. I'll have to see what our buddy, dano Griffiths, has tweeted out in terms of the offensive line. He may not have gotten to it quite yet, but he wasn't necessarily running for his life today, which is nice. He was sacked once for 14 yards, but I do want to talk to you about this, jay, because it's something that obviously Jaguar fans are very aware of, but it was on full display in front of a national well, not totally national audience, but it was brought up today by the commentators.
Speaker 1:This spin that Trevor Lawrence does to, I say to get out of trouble, but it usually spins himself into more trouble Is Trevor Lawrence mechanically, I don't want to say broken, but has, because of, again, the offensive line that we've discussed and the coaching or lack thereof, has he regressed? What is it about this spin that he does that typically gets him in more trouble than saves him?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he's absolutely regressed. No ifs, ands or buts about it. And typically what that spin move is used for with quarterbacks you'll see it all the time, every quarterback uses it. But what they do is they're trying to spin out of pressure and by using that spin move, typically, if you spin the right way, you put the defensive end or the defender that's trying to tackle you in terrible position to stop you. You know, either you can spin out, maybe run the ball upfield, or spin out by yourself some more time, by, you know, evading to the sideline and finding somebody open. But the purpose in that is to disposition or misposition a defensive end or a defender that is coming at you full speed more than likely, and put them in a position where they are no longer in your way in terms of making that pass or sacking you. But I guess, like with Trevor Lawrence, his like, mechanically he's just so out of sync and out of whack with where he was in the beginning of the season and what he had worked on during the preseason to where he's just utilizing it completely wrong. Now, admittedly I didn't see the play that you're referring to in this particular game, but, to make sense of it, that's what that spin move is made to do. If you turn on your favorite quarterback basically any quarterback with mobility and a lot of quarterbacks that don't have mobility they especially have to use because they're not the fastest, so they have to find quick ways to evade pressure. But if you turn on your favorite quarterback, you'll see how that's supposed to be utilized to put a defender out of position and get them out of your way. But yeah, man, like he just doesn't look like himself and that's why, like I stress, people didn't understand when we had that space as many, many years ago, why I stress that you can't just give if you're shot. You can't just give the keys to Trevor Lawrence's career to anybody and by anybody I meant not shot, but Trent Baalke Because you need a GM that understands the gravity of building a good offensive line not necessarily great, but a good offensive line and, as we've discussed, trent Baalke is not good at that at all, that's not a strength of his. But you need a GM that can build a good enough offensive line around your quarterback that doesn't put him in a position where he's three years into his career and is struggling with mechanics because he's sped up. You know, that's a lot of what led to his misfires is he's sped up, he's throwing the ball a little bit before he should or he's putting a little bit too much mustard on it, because the clock internally in his mind and the you know, the strength clock in his mind and the muscle memory in his mind is thrown off from being in danger constantly, and so sometimes he'll see ghosts that aren't there. You know we talked about that in the past with plenty of quarterbacks and you know he's just's just as a result. He struggled, so we'll see if that's something he can get corrected during the season. It's kind of hard to correct during the season, but we'll see if he can.
Speaker 2:Um, it's on the coaches to. What you do to get a quarterback out of that rut is, you know, find a way to get them into a rhythm. Find easy throws right. Find a way to help them start a rhythm. Find easy throws right. Find a way to help them start games fast, which Trevor Lawrence has actually said himself as well. And once you get them in a rhythm and you get them in a situation where they're completing back-to-back passes, then that muscle memory starts to even itself out and get back to where it needs to be. But again, can the coaching staff do it? It's hard to say right now, because they look like they need to be fired the moment. Well, they probably already landed back home.
Speaker 1:Uh, they need to be fired like instantly, monday preferably, but I don't think that'll happen yeah, before we transition into discussing these coaching candidates, jay, I do want to take the time because it was a request from once again, as I mentioned, from our buddy Eric, my co-host over at the Way4 Podcast. What do you think of? Just as far as Doug's demeanor, his answer I think it is the first time he acknowledged all season that press is calling plays Somebody pointed that out on Twitter as well plays Somebody pointed that out on Twitter as well. And again, more, it seems, more deflection from him. And you know the eye roll the psst at the end of the press conference as well. It's just all nonsense and garbage I don't want to see from him anymore. You know, like honeymoon's over Doug A couple years ago great, like you said, jay, anybody could have pulled us out of that rut in terms of being at least better than Urban Meyer.
Speaker 1:That wasn't anything. Necessarily I don't want to say it wasn't hard to do. Coaching football is hard, but anybody would have been an improvement over Urban Meyer. And now you're here pulling the same crap because again, for some reason, you're tied to Press Taylor and you're committed to making sure that your buddy has a job, and I'm sick of it. So before we move on. I do want to get your thoughts on how Doug ended that press conference and just the way that his attitude currently is when it comes to interacting with the press or answering any of these questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as I said, you know, like me, james Johnson the podcaster, and you, phil Smith the podcaster, we can say that the coaches can't go out there and make the plays for the players, right, again, like that's kind of our job and that's what comes with the territory being critical, but it's a way to do that. As I said earlier, if you're the coach, you do that in practice, right, not in the public. And you know, we already know that Doug probably is out of here, but if Sean Cunn ever needed an answer and ever needed proof that he messed up tremendously as well in this process, it was that moment of seeing what Doug Peterson had to say there. And it's crazy because it wasn't that long ago that we were in the press conference, right, or we weren't there, but we, you know, saw the press conference where we just thought this weren't there, but we saw the press conference where we just thought this guy was the best thing since sliced bread. And man, did we get fooled there? Right, he had the media clapping for him when he answered the question. You remember he answered the question about who's going to call the plays and, if I can recall this correctly and correct me if I'm wrong Phil. He said me without hesitation or I will, or something like that, without hesitation, and the media like went to clapping just immediately and look where we are now. So to go from that guy that you know looks like he had some sense of a direction for his quarterback and his team to where he is now is just flat out disappointing for his quarterback and his team to where he is now. It's just flat out disappointing. And it is sad to be honest with you. But at the end of the day, like Doug has nobody this is the key to me Doug has nobody to be mad with but himself.
Speaker 2:You know, some people will say and this was the argument when he took the job as well, jay, it's only 32 of these jobs available. You can't blame Doug for taking it, and my argument with that was always you know why take a job with Trent Baalke? And also, too, why take a job with Trent Baalke if you aren't going to come into that situation prepared to fight and claw and scratch and do whatever is needed to get the weapons around Trevor Lawrence and the pieces around Trevor Lawrence, most notably the offensive line that he needs? Why take the job if you weren't ready to go to war with Trent Baalke for those things. I forgot it might have been Dilla or somebody who said this, but if you're upset with the fact that Trent didn't put the right amount of investments into the offensive line, well, shot con is always a owner that at least you know.
Speaker 2:As much as we criticize him, he shouldn't be hard to contact and say hey, look, shot, we are going to be paying Trevor Lawrence $200 million in the draft. I feel like we need to invest in some protection for him. And you know, while shot con doesn't know, know a lot about football. That's a great argument to make. So, like Doug could be mad all he wants about how things have transpired, but he only has himself to blame about taking a job with Trent Baalke. First and foremost, all the other coaches around the league were smart enough to say I'll pass on that. And now that things aren't going his way, you know he's taking it out the wrong way and saying the wrong things. But just know, at the end of the day, doug, you took this job and you have to take the responsibilities that come with it. And that's all I got to say on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, doug Peterson and Trambolke are snake oil salesmen. They're going to give us some sort of fraudulent cure and let us know hey, I can fix this, I got a way to make this better. And that is who they are. That is who they've been most of their careers, or all their careers in the case of Trambolke, and now we're paying the consequences. The franchise is paying the consequences. Trevor Lawrence is paying the consequences. Brian Thomas Jr, the promising rookie, is paying the consequences.
Speaker 1:You and me, as the fan, myself, as well as everybody that sits in my section as far as season ticket holders, we're paying for it. And you're going to come out there and roll your eyes and shout out to Brent Martineau for asking an actual question and checking you for something that you said. You yourself said and used your own quote against you, doug, so you don't get to sit up there and roll your eyes at Demetrius and Ship and Mia and Brent and those people that work their tails off each and every day, that know that this fan base is just doing everything they can to root for a winner. And you saw how this fan base reacts a couple of years ago when there's competency going on Right. So back to back. Nine and eight seasons Great Back to back winning seasons here in Jacksonville Fantastic, that's not enough anymore seasons great back-to-back winning seasons here in jacksonville fantastic, that's not enough anymore.
Speaker 2:It's just not so. I don't want to hear it feel something too that I want to add to it too. Man, it's like how they did their best to like, you know, on the surface, make it look like they're seeing eye to eye. And you know, I saw right through it. I saw right through it. I saw right through it. But in that episode of the Hunt where they were drafting the players, you know, obviously it gives you a visual of the front office Shot Doug Trent, tony Khan, all of them sitting together as they make these picks. And you know, I didn't see a look of for somebody who's disappointed in how things have gone in terms of the talent that have been brought in. I didn't see somebody who you know and I know people will say, well, jay, he's not supposed to show it on camera.
Speaker 2:But when it came down to that discussion that they showed in the hunt for getting a second round pick, doug was like, yeah, let's do it. Like. I'm just paraphrasing here. You know what I'm saying. I'm not saying exactly what he said, but he didn't seem like a I'll put it this way he didn't seem like somebody who was upset with that pick and somebody who was trying to bang the table for offensive linemen. Now, maybe that happened behind the scenes, but what I'm simply trying to say is I just like how they try to dress it up like they're buddy-buddy and they're having conversations in between the pics of, like you know, oh, andy Reid text me trending. He said that's a heck of a pic.
Speaker 2:And you know, they just having like all of these casual conversations, like they cool and close, like that and like for me, I just saw through it and this is just kind of you know, this one of those things that falls on shotgun, like people will tell you whatever they need to say to get a job. Yeah, I could get along with management, I can get along with this guy, I can get along with that. But you, as the owner, you have to pay attention to the signs and you have to fix that when people weren't running to this job opening despite having a number one overall pick. That's stuff you have to pay attention to, right, and while you know Sean Cohn is not, like super football, knowledgeable, that's OK, I get it Like your thing is automobile parts. Right, you are big in the automobile industry. At least hire the right people, that can, you know, put the right people together and put the right people that won't clash together and you won't have to continue dealing with this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'll say it. You know, we said it before, I'll say it again Shad Khan, bring in a brain trust man, put together a team to help you make this decision. Circe Vasselli, fred Taylor whoever else they think should be involved in this discussion. Help Maurice Jones. Drew, I'm sure he would love to do it.
Speaker 1:So we did want to discuss kind of a little bit of the CBS article here, jay, but I think we should maybe leave that for another time because we do want to get into this list as far as coaches that you would like to see on the Jaguars radar. Of course, he did the GM list last week, so we want to follow up with the coaches. I do have a question for you before we get started are these just five coaches as is, or did you think about them in terms of how they would pair with a specific gm, or do you think any of these coaches and gms could be plug and play and they would work no matter what? I'm interested to see, kind of like, what your thought process was when you put this list together.
Speaker 2:Well, some of them I did with having in mind a GM to pair with them, but some of them I didn't have a GM in mind. So really, the biggest theme of this list was really who can help Trevor Lawrence the most, and some of which like who could be a better leader, which that's what we were just discussing, right, that Doug kind of hasn't been as of late. Who could be a better leader to, you know, be able to tap into this team's potential?
Speaker 1:Gotcha, okay, cool. Well, hey, let's jump into it, right? We're talking about the future Because, as far as what's going on in the current day, man, it is not working. So we want to give you guys an idea of maybe who to keep your eye on. So, if you missed last week's episode, jay gave the top five general manager choices that we should be keeping an eye on, and this week, of course, as we mentioned, we're going to be doing the head coaches. So did you have any honorable mentions, jay, or do you just want to kick it off with number five?
Speaker 2:Yeah, honorable mentions, I had Mike Kafka, who you know, a young, up-and-coming coordinator. It feels like Mike Kafka was just playing. Not too young, that's how young he is, he's like my age, he's like 36, bro. So Mike Kafka came to mind. I think, if I'm not mistaken, he's with New York right now. Joe Brady, who we saw with the Bills do numbers on us last week, and Clint Kubiak who, if I'm not mistaken, he is with the New Orleans Saints. Obviously, his name precedes the reputation of the Kubiak family. So, yeah, he's a guy that, of course, was a part of Gary Kubiak or has been knowledgeable with Gary Kubiak building the scheme that he built a long time ago. So those were my honorable mention guys.
Speaker 1:Got it. And then what about this? As far as the opposite, just before we get started at number five, any names you absolutely want to stay away from? Bill Belichick is on my list. What about you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, bill, I don't want to say Bill Belichick is on my list of people I want to stay away from, but he's certainly not near the top of my list and I certainly wouldn't be like super gaga about it. What excites me? The only I'll say this, phil what excites me about Bill Belichick is us as media members. Right, we get to share a media room with the greatest in terms of head coaching. Now, bill Belichick the GM. Get that guy away from my team by all means. But we'll be able to spend time in a media room with the greatest head coaching football ever.
Speaker 2:Does that not have some kind of intrigue to it? You know, I guess I could spin that back to you, because he's just an encyclopedia for football. I know he's not the most like. You know he sounds kind of boring when you look at him or you see him in press conferences, but just to be able to pick his mind and speak with him is something that I could tell my kids forever. I don't know how you would feel about that aspect of it. But then with that comes Bill Belichick the GM, and that's a no for me. That's a no-G for me, as a matter of fact. So I want to hear your take on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I think the question you're asking me is would I like to sit down and have a conversation with Bill Belichick, absolutely Any day of the week? Set me on the opposite side of a table with Bill Belichick, but not as our head coach. So that's where I'm at, because, again, not only just because of the general manager stuff, but that is a big part of it Right, and shout out to. I do want to give a shout out to Robert Land. Houston Sports Talk podcast had me on last week and we talked about Bill Belichick. So if you want a little bit more of my thoughts, you can check out that, that video over on their YouTube page.
Speaker 1:But yeah, if we're talking about just sitting down and talking football, picking his brain, not only about football but also life, sign me up every day of the week. But in terms of the head coach of the Jacksonville Jaguars going forward, no, that doesn't intrigue me. In terms of sitting in the press box or sitting in the press room and listening to Bill Belichick give nothing answers for 17 games a season, now, that doesn't interest me. So that's how I feel about it. Was there anybody else on your list that you'd want to stay away?
Speaker 2:from. That's the only one that comes to mind. But yeah, and also, don't sign me up for like I don't want what comes with Bill Belichick in terms. I don't want like freaking Josh McDaniels or.
Speaker 1:Matt.
Speaker 2:Patricia here either. Like that's a no for me as well, joe.
Speaker 1:Judge yeah, we don't want those guys. Right, right, we don't want those guys here, so, but yeah, Jay, go ahead and kick us off. Who is number five on your list for head?
Speaker 2:coaching candidates that are on your radar to replace Doug Peterson. So on the bottom of my list I have Todd Munkin. One thing that kind of stood out to me in this search right field was some of the guys that got head coaching interviews, or, you know, they have ties to the Jaguars, and Munkin was one of them. He used to be a receivers coach with us. Um, and this was a long time ago, but you know, me and Phil were fans of the franchise then too, but under Jack Del Rio he was a receivers coach and, um, I'm just real familiar with Munkin from the standpoint of you know what he's done with Georgia, won some national championships with us. Go dogs, right, um.
Speaker 2:So, like I, always have been intrigued with offensive minds that are not that far removed from college, because a lot of what you're going to be dealing with is young men that are coming from college too. Especially, again, if you're firing your coach, you're probably going to start a youth movement and you need somebody who can communicate, be the total exact opposite of Urban Meyer, basically, who can communicate with the youth well, and be the exact opposite of Tom Coughlin. Right, that was his big thing. He could never connect with the youth Right. And I think you know, with Monk being you know what, two years removed from being at Georgia and working with Carson Beck and working with all of these young players that are now in the NFL, I think he could connect very well with a young group of young men and just tap in. And he's very seasoned as an offensive coordinator or just an offensive assistant in the NFL as well.
Speaker 2:I mean, I know you look at the Ravens and say you know, at times, especially this year, they haven't looked the greatest, but he's kind of worked with what he's always had with Lamar Jackson and you know he had Carson back previously. So it's like, hey, you give me the quarterback, I'll figure out the risks, I'll put what needs to be put around them or I'll confine the scheme to them and we'll make it work. So that's kind of like what you would want if you're looking at it from the perspective of Trevor Lawrence. And I mean, look, last year the Ravens weren't that bad in terms of offensively. They ran the ball well. I had to pull up their statistics but if I can recall they ran the ball well. That was kind of their strength. And Lamar Jackson had a very good season, right? So he was, if I can recall right Phil, you could correct me on this he was under consideration for MVP again, I think, but he didn't end up winning it. But all of that said Last year, yeah, last year he won MVP last year.
Speaker 2:There you go.
Speaker 1:Well, my point made.
Speaker 2:Okay, that further makes my point, right there. This man helped lead Lamar Jackson to the MVP victory and, yep, you're right, now that I'm thinking about it, he did win, which you know. You got to wonder. Can he do the same for Trevor Lawrence, right? So Todd Munkin is on my list for those reasons.
Speaker 1:Yeah, at the time of recording right now, 9.30 pm, the Ravens are up 21-3 on the Buffalo Bills. The Buffalo Bills team that just put up almost a 60 piece just a few days ago, right, and I think Munkin did an interview for the Chargers and Panthers job last year, if I'm remembering correctly. So, yeah, that he's a name that certainly is going to be floating out there and you know, when you look at his trajectory, jay, yeah, a head coaching spot is certainly next for him and I would be very happy with that. I know Ravens fans kind of go back and forth on what Munkin has been doing, at least early on in the season. But you know, right now, I mean, you never count out the Baltimore Ravens and you know you have taught me, jay, that getting somebody from that Ravens tree, from that Baltimore Ravens ecosystem, is never a bad move. So, yeah, I love this pick at number five for the possibility as far as Munkin coming in and working with Trevor. For sure, who's number four on your list?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so number four, I have Aaron Glenn, another guy, for what I said with Ty Munkken with ties to the Jaguars, right, aaron Glenn. I can remember going to games and watching Aaron Glenn play in the Jaguars uniform. So it feels is that you know, he's just a leader amongst men, he can get men to just play their best and, that being said, like again, that's what you look for a leader, because we're kind of not seeing that with Doug right now, Somebody who can get the team to rally around them. But also to talking when discussing what you just said, right about teams with good ecosystems, Right, a team with a good ecosystem right now and that has had a good ecosystem for the last two years, is the Detroit Lions.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think the Jacksonville Jaguars should pay close attention to that whole tree and that ecosystem because they are very similar to the Jacksonville Jaguars, where their culture was just terrible in terms of winning and being able to put together good teams. What have you Lions fans will tell you better than anybody, it's been rough and hard to be a Lions fan. You can argue they probably have had it, uh, tougher than us, probably in terms of recent times but they figured it out never, uh, we've never gone 0 and 16.
Speaker 1:So yeah, the lions right, exactly, man.
Speaker 2:So, oh man, what a stain to have. But, um, uh, that being said, taking somebody that has helped shape a culture that was previously terrible into what it is now is what the Jacksonville Jaguars should be looking at, and Glenn isn't the only one. We'll mention some others that they should be looking at there, and I mentioned a GM candidate, ray Agnew, who would help as well. He was a guy that interviewed, I think, for two jobs, three jobs last year.
Speaker 1:Um, it's about time, and I think interviewed with the falcons titans and chargers looks like yeah.
Speaker 2:So three jobs right, and I think he's learned a lot from dan campbell too, right, another leader amongst men as well. So it wouldn't be the sexiest pick, admittedly, right, but I think that the fan base would rally around a former Jaguar right, and somebody who has leadership skills. I think, like the fans wouldn't, like in the initial stages, may not be excited about it, but look at it this way. We were super excited, you know, when we thought we were going to be able to get Byron Leftwich and bring him back. You know I wouldn't be mad with bringing a defensive player from our past back either, because I think you know, eventually that is something that the fan base can rally around because they love their Jag alum. So I don't know, that's maybe that's just me. Again, I get it, it's not the most sexy as pig, but I'm curious to know how you feel about that selection.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, I would be ecstatic about Aaron Glenn and, like you said, didn't spend a whole lot of time here. It was. It was less than a season technically, but in terms of a guy that I grew up watching, you know, I mean you're talking about his Jets run and then to where he is now, as far as in the Detroit Lions organization, wasn't it last year's hard knocks? Jay with the Lions and he? He was very much like front and center during the Lions hard knocks and just seeing how he connected with players and showed emotion and got everybody to rally and everything like that Like that's exactly what we need here when it comes to a head coach only 52 years old, so definitely a younger guy, former player, I mean, look at what the Houston Texans are doing with Amiko Ryans, right? I would be all for this.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I do agree. I think people are going to be wanting an offensive head coach to come in. But as far as defensive choices, yeah, aaron Glenn would be on my list as well. So love that one for sure, just for the, not only because I think he's going to be a great head coach someday, but in terms of culture, yeah, aaron Glenn would certainly get the job done, in my opinion as well. So, jay, who do you have number three on your list? As we continue, these are top five coaches that Jay thinks the Jaguars should consider in terms of replacing Doug Peterson.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it wouldn't be a list without going with a hot coaching candidate that helped a rookie to have a phenomenal season, right. And so I'm going to go with Bobby Slowick, who we just saw. They didn't have quite the game they wanted offensively against us, but again, that was a lot because of penalties, right. But when you look at Bobby Slowick and what he did with CJ Stroud last year especially and just how relaxed he got him to be Because, remember, cj Stroud kind of started, you know, things off a little bit slow and you know then he got that chip on his shoulder. I think he even said this. It was that Jacksonville Jaguars game where he felt like the Jaguars didn't respect him, just based off of what they showed and some of the things they were saying in the press conferences, and that put a chip on his shoulder. And you know a part of what helped him to make the game look so easy, right, the game. That's the thing about Stroud. Man is. Every time I watch him, even going back to the Ohio State days, man is. You know, the coaches that he's been around have kind of helped him a lot to make the game look easy, and Bobby Slowick has done that on the professional level as well. So you know, looking at what they had the successes specifically they had last year because I know this year they're on a little bit of a slump and what he did for the young quarterback and CJ Stroud, of course that's intriguing transition and speed up the process of building a team.
Speaker 2:Bobby Sloak is a good answer because he knows the division and that's what I was saying with Ed Dodds last week, right with the GM candidate. Bobby Sloak is familiar with all of the defenses in this division. He probably doesn't focus on the offenses but he has some familiarity with the personnel and all of that in terms of offensively around the league and whatnot. So yeah, that is a guy that I think the transition would be easy with the Texans. Block it maybe, I don't know. Again, like that just depends on what kind of organization you're dealing with. But I don't think these organizations like preventing somebody from getting a job and feeding their families, organizations like preventing somebody from getting a job and feeding their families. But all of that said, I would go with Bobby Sloic as one of my top guys. Time will tell if the Jacksonville Jaguars have been paying attention to what the Texans are doing and plan on interviewing him as a result.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just talked about a youth movement, bobby Sloic, 37 years old, interviewed for three positions last year, maybe more the commanders, falcons and Seahawks. Actually, no, he also did Tennessee and Carolina. So he was certainly making those rounds last year. You know people understandably taking notice after what CJ Stroud and the Houston Texans did last year. So, yeah, definitely one of those hot commodities did last year. So, yeah, definitely one of those hot commodities. I'm sure there's another name on this list, jay. That is another offensive commodity when it comes to head coaching positions but or head coaching openings. So, yeah, not surprised to see him here on this list. He has had a quite a rise. He also spent time with the 49ers, so you know I was just about to say that, Phil Right yeah, I left out.
Speaker 1:The most important thing is learning from a Shanahan right Spending time with Kyle Shanahan and we saw what the Texans did to us here today, you know, and optimizing their strengths and trying to, you know, hide those weaknesses. Now, you know, obviously coming off all those penalties, that's a little concerning, but you know. But those are things that can be fixed over time. They do have a penalty problem over there in Houston. But, yeah, definitely understand why Bobby Sloak would be on your list and in the top three. So if ShotKhan's not paying attention, hopefully once again he would bring in that general manager and that brain trust that is paying attention to what's happening right here in the division. So, jay, who do you have next on your list as we get to the top two? Top two options to replace Doug Peterson once Shad Khan hopefully gives him the boot sooner rather than later.
Speaker 2:Number two on your list and so this name, just for the fact of who he was the coach for, might make some people say, oh, I don't know about that, but I like Mike Vrabel and I've always liked Mike Vrabel from the sense of he's always that guy at his age. He's not an older head coach, he's not a younger head coach, he's kind of in that middle age of head coaches. He's not an older head coach, he's not a younger head coach, he's kind of in that middle age of head coaches. He's a guy that every time I saw Mike Vrabel he was like one to fill in terms of like, not necessarily during the regular season or whatever the case may be, but for example, in the offseason, when you're scouting and all of that. It was nothing for Mike Vrabel to jump on the field and do some drills with one of these kids at their pro day, right. So again, that goes back to what I was saying earlier with my first candidate. That's escaping my mind, but that goes back to what I was saying about like being able to connect with a younger crowd. Well, todd Monken was who I was mentioning earlier.
Speaker 2:Being able to connect with the younger crowd, because you probably again you're going to be dealing with the youth movement and also to like, even for the veteran players, he's somebody that players can get behind because, also, you know, he has played in the game a long time himself, right? We all remember the days of him playing with the Patriots. I think he was actually drafted by the Steelers. Correct me if I'm wrong about that, phil, but he played for the Patriots. I think he was actually drafted by the Steelers. Correct me if I'm wrong about it, phil, but he played for the Patriots. That's what we know him most, notably for playing linebacker, and then sometimes he would come in as a tight end, like he made a living off of that, even scored some touchdowns. So that just kind of shows you the liveliness of him, right, just again, as I was saying, his ability to connect with the younger crowd and also, too, like one thing I noticed with him is like every year that he was there with the Titans, we never could scratch the Titans off as an easy win, right?
Speaker 2:As a matter of fact, it was that game we always circled, that we could either get sweeped by them each year, right, or we would split the series. But even when they didn't have talent, it still felt like Mike Vrabel would get the most out of them and maximize them. As you were saying in the earlier field with Bobby Sloan, would maximize the talent he had, even when we were more talented in them, and they would still somehow find a way to win right, and I think that's kind of the story of his career. I don't know if the Titans have had a lot of super talented teams, but what he was able to get out of them during his run there to me is kind of fascinating. I think they overachieved with him. I don't think they were ultra talented and he got them into the playoffs. They didn't really make noise in the playoffs, but he got them at least there.
Speaker 1:So that's another intriguing element with him and again, like I said, with slow it, he's familiar with the afc south yeah, like you said, I don't think people are going to be super ecstatic about this option, especially given you know some of the up-and-coming names that are on this list, but still, I mean he's still under 50. That's crazy, 49 years old. Mike ravel and yeah, looking at his tenure there in Tennessee, he won 54 and 45, 2 and 3 in the postseason. But I mean, you're talking about three straight postseason appearances 2019, they went 9 and 7 and were in the AFC Championship game. Of course, they lost to the Kansas City Chiefs, but I'm looking at that. I mean, those were the Ryan Tannehill days and you know, and obviously Derek Henry was there, but I think that was maybe a rookie, aj Brown back then. But yeah, I mean we talked to all of our our Titans friends and whenever they come onto the show, you know they had always spoken very glowingly about Mike Vrabel. I'm pretty sure the owner of the Titans was a big fan of his. And then, obviously, those last couple of seasons got rough, you know, seven and 10, six and 11.
Speaker 1:The thing with me for Mike Vrabel Jay is I think he's going to be number one on a lot of other teams lists and you know, obviously the Cowboys are going to be thrown out there when it comes to whatever's going to happen with Jerry, but I think Mike Vrabel would be a great pick here. We keep using the word culture and listen to Tennessee Titans. Were they going to be like the sexiest team to watch? No, but they were going to win. They were going to win games and they were going to be competitive and that's what they were during Mike Vrabel's tenure. So still also very young guy, former player Again, we've seen a lot of those on this too. So, yeah, I'm OK with Mike Vrabel being on this list. I might switch him and Slowik or maybe have him a little bit further down in the list. Maybe go Vrabel, glenn and then Slowik, but I'm certainly OK with him being on the list for sure.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, we talk about Belichick and you know people wanting him. People should want the Belichick and you know people wanting him. People should want the Belichick disciple. Not Belichick and I'm not talking about McDaniels or I'm not talking about Patricia, I'm talking about Vrabel is the one that people should be looking at. He played for Belichick, should I say. I don't think he ever coached under him, but that's the one people should be looking at. So I love Vrabel here, as they call him, and yeah, you said he would be on the top of the list for a lot of people. One thing that Jazz got going in their favor again. He's familiar with this division. He probably will think he can hit the ground running in terms of already knowing what's going on in the division. And also, too, would he be intrigued by having a better quarterback than Ryan Tannehill and Trevor Lawrence? Well, that depends on if coaches and GMs feel if Trevor Lawrence has been ruined. But if he thinks of Trevor Lawrence highly as the Clemson guy that we saw in Clemson and the national champion, then he probably would be intrigued by this team. But we'll see and time will tell.
Speaker 2:I'll go right ahead into the number one coaching candidate for me and that's Ben Johnson from the Lions. I already spoke glowingly about the Lions organization, right, and I would love ideally for you know it'd be Ray Agnew, probably as the GM. He brings in Ben Johnson and Ben Johnson like maybe brings in Mark Brunel as the offensive coordinator because they work together in Detroit. You know, maybe that's wishful thinking, but just going back to what I was saying about the Lions organization, he's a guy. He's actually a holdover from before, when Dan Campbell was there. So he saw like the worst of the Lions, like not necessarily like the Lions that went 0-16, but he saw some bad Lions team. He was like a, he was like an offensive assistant before Dan Campbell came there and Dan Campbell liked him so much he was like you know what? I want to keep him Right.
Speaker 2:And when coach Lynn, anthony Lynn, was fired as Dan Campbell's offensive coordinator, I think that's when they moved him up and he's hit the ground running and I think the key with him is that again he's catered the offense to Jared Goff. We're talking about a guy who was a cast off and people probably felt like, felt like uh, jared golf's career is over. They willingly traded for him, brought him in and they have been killing it ever since with him and I think what has helped them to have success with golf is just like they're very kind of like they're close to balance. They might be a little bit more pass heavy now than they were, but they for the most part they've been close to balance and that's what you want to help a quarterback. That's what has elevated Jared Goff, that's what would elevate Trevor Lawrence is being closer to balance.
Speaker 2:Right At one point in time they were almost dead like 50-50 run pass ratio. I think they're like 47-53 now in terms of run to pass ratio. So they're a little bit more run heavy now. But all of that said man, it's just that balance he would bring to Trevor Lawrence. And also too, just like when you watch the Lions, one thing about them is they're physical, the exact opposite of this offense. And I think if you put that physical offensive line in front of Trevor where the run game could come easier, if you put that physical offensive line in front of Trevor where the run game could come easier, he could see a career resurgence, like Jared Goff has seen, and he could get back closer to the Trevor we saw back when we made that playoff run.
Speaker 1:Yeah, ben Johnson was one of those names that seemed like just an absolute slam dunk in terms of getting a head coaching job. Last season for the last cycle, the hiring cycle, I think he interviewed with seattle, atlanta, carolina and the chargers and then he withdrew his name from consideration after taking any more interviews. And I remember there there was a little bit of like controversy is too strong of a word but there's like a little bit of like controversy is too strong of a word but there's like a little bit of like pushback on Ben Johnson's attitude in terms of getting another opportunity in the future, that kind of rub people the wrong way. Do you remember that, jay, in terms of him withdrawing his name and deciding to stick with Detroit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember that. Well, I think, like what I remember is, it was a rumor out there that he wanted a lot of money, right?
Speaker 2:And he's going to you know that he was super picky about like what situation that he wanted to be a part of. While he did interview for many jobs, it felt, like you know just from the reports, that he would be picky on which one of those jobs he would actually accept if it was given to him. But I mean, I don't mind a picky candidate and I don't blame him for being picky because, you know, one minute we talked about this with Ed Dodds and him being picky, right With the GM search. One minute, these owners, you know they love you and then the next minute they're trying to get you up out of there. Right, chad Cunn loved Urban Meyer, which rightfully so. He should have packed him up, as he did, right. But you know, like I don't blame coaches for wanting security at all.
Speaker 2:So for a picky candidate, a GM or head coach, the Jacksonville Jaguars seem like a good spot because again you got an owner who's going to be hands off. He's going to stay out of the way. We know that for a fact. He's going to stay out of the way. We know that for a fact. He's going to stay out of the way, love it or hate it. And, um, you know, again you have a quarterback. If he thought jared goff was fixable, then I don't see why he don't think trevor lawrence is fixable.
Speaker 1:That could be intriguing to him as well do you share any of the concern that some people uh, as far as like the, the national media has gone that the Lions have taken maybe a little bit of a step back as far as offensively I mean they've still got a winning record. They play tomorrow night at the time of recording but some people think that Jared Goff has taken a little bit of a step back here this year as well as the offense just in general. I mean they're still playing winning football. I'm not too concerned about it. But do you share any of those concerns when it comes to what the Lions look like this year?
Speaker 2:No, because it wasn't that long ago. I was on PFF, I think it was last week. The Lions, yeah, while they were struggling, they were the number one ranked offensive line at the time of that writing that I saw last week they had the best offensive line in football. Sign me up for that any day of the week, because if you give Trevor Lawrence the offensive line, the rest will fix itself right. The run game will fix him and you know there's more opportunities in terms of the passing game as well. So no, I don't, just for the simple fact that you know well, if the offensive line is something that he emphasizes, then the rest will sort itself out, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, ben Johnson is at the top of my list as well, and then, like I said, I'd probably go Slowik, then Aaron Glenn and then Mike Vrabel, like you have on your list as well. I just want to throw this name out there, because Boogie brought it up in our group chat Cliff Kingsbury. What are the thoughts there?
Speaker 2:no, I'm good on that Boogie. You're my nephew and all but um. I don't know Cliff Kingsbury, now look, I would like Kingsbury, I kind of would be open to him.
Speaker 1:Let him cook a little bit. Right in Washington they got a good thing going like. Give him a couple years maybe yeah, no, I would like Kingsbury.
Speaker 2:I kind of would be open to him. Let him cook a little bit right in Washington.
Speaker 1:I think they got a good kid going Like give him a couple years maybe.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I would take him as an OC. Maybe as an OC, but I don't know, man, I just think sometimes you could be too young for the game and I think that's kind of what showed in Arizona, and I don't know if he's ready just yet. Like, if anything, it was probably a sign that they brought him into the league a little too soon. But look he, you know he's cooking over there in Washington and also to a lot of times what we'll see with these coaches is, when they go to another team and they get to focus on that offensive coordinator level, defensive coordinator level, they learn a lot about their second tenure as a head coach. So let's, let's pump the brakes on it, let's see what he learns from that Washington group before we start pumping the whole Cliff Kingsbury for head coach thing again yeah, I agree, I wanted to get your your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1:You know, boogie and overreacting, that definitely never happens. He'll never listen to this episode, so he'll have no idea that we said that about him. But really great list, jay. I'm interested to see maybe, what names emerge as the season goes on as well. Um, as obviously there are teams that are certainly overachieving. Uh, that happens every season, and there'll be some names that are thrown out there when it comes to the head coaching mix. Uh, last thing I'll ask you before we wrap up this episode when does that change need to happen? Now? Like I said, in a perfect world I think this change would happen tomorrow morning. We would get noticed that Doug Peterson and Trent Baalke have both been let go.
Speaker 1:At what point do you make this move? Do you wait to the bye week? Do you wait till you get back from London? Depending on how things go there At this point, who knows how the Colts game is gonna unfold next week? That's certainly not a gimme. I know we got that winning streak against the Colts here at home, but Joe Flacco doesn't care about that. Joe Flacco doesn't give a damn about any streak when he comes to play, as we saw him. I believe they they won today, didn't they the Colts over the Steelers, or did the Steelers make that comeback? Let me check. Yeah, no, they won. So Joe Flacco came in and led them to victory. So when do you think that change should be made? As far as letting Doug go, do you let him finish out the season? Does it get so bad that you can't ignore it anymore?
Speaker 2:What's the time frame you're looking at in your opinion. Yeah, what I will say I know. Earlier I was saying like, hey, shod, fire them as soon as they get off the plane, right, but at the same time with with shod man, you, you don't want shod to like fall in love with a guy you know for sticking around with him too much. Like doug could go on a little run, and it's hard to see them going on a run, I get it, but they can go on a little run and shot might be like, hey, we might want to keep you. I don't know. I'm joking partially a little bit there, but I mean, yeah, with the three games that's coming up, they are winnable. You know, joe Flacco did win a game against us last year, so there's that. But the Colts will never make me believe and I'm a non-believer in this Jaguars team, but the Colts will never make me believe that they can beat the Jaguars in Jacksonville. Like just literally nothing they've tried works when they go to Jacksonville, so that's a win. And then you got to worry about two teams flying to London and playing us. Like those are winnable games too, so they could go on a little winning streak regardless of how the season go, I say fire everybody.
Speaker 2:But I am not as big as others on like firing Doug too soon. Right, and a lot of it too is like that article that we mentioned. Man is like. I don't want to put Trevor in a bad position either as well, like for the rest of the season, because it sounds like Mike McCoy don't really have his hands in play, calling like that even though he used to be a former head coach. I just don't want to put Trevor in a compromising position and if that just means holding on to Doug for the sake of just like putting you know, not putting Trevor out there with just like just straight up unorganized chaos, then I'm cool with you know keeping him as long as possible.
Speaker 1:Personally, yeah, you're definitely right, because, especially going over to London, you know they always seem to like put a couple wins together and then come back here with a little bit of momentum and you know who knows what could happen. What I would circle here is um, you know they play at detroit november 17th and that's heading into their bye week. They get blown out. Look at these, the stretch of games here, right when they come back. We talked about this in our season review episode green bay, philly, minnesota, detroit. That's another losing streak that I could easily see, especially the way the Vikings are playing right now we just talked about.
Speaker 1:The Lions Packers are a little bit up and down. I think that's probably because of the Jordan Love injury, even though he's playing, but he's probably not 100%. And the Eagles who knows what Eagles team you'll get on Sunday Night Football right, I think that's Sunday night football. But yeah, they could go on another losing streak heading into the buy and that could be the opportunity, you know, and who knows, if we get, how many more of these Doug Peterson press conferences are we going to get before shotgun just says enough is enough, you know. So I definitely don't think. I don't want it to happen too soon, but there is an opportunity right after the bye where you know you got five weeks left. Let Mike McCoy come in and do what he needs to do to finish out the season and kind of go from there. So yeah, November 18th is the date to circle guys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good time to feel because you know you start giving people fillers in terms of you know who may want the job, right, so you can be on the radar of these candidates all the way in November Not that you can interview them during the season, but you know their agents can start doing the homework and all of that good stuff. Ok, let me do some digging on this Jacksonville situation and the ownership there and the organization and what have you, and they'll be well prepared to you know, relay that information to you know, their clients, the head coaching candidates, and yeah, I mean that'll get, that'll put them ahead of the curve by doing it around that time and, as I said, you also don't want to do it too soon either. So that feels like a good, that feels like a reasonable time to do it in terms of not doing it too soon but getting some fillers on you know those who may want the job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I think the only really tough thing would be for us is we have to deal with this for another one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, almost two months. So we'll see if we make it, guys. We'll see how it goes. But, jay, anything else you want to mention as we wrap up this episode? Another great episode. Glad we were able to work out at least some of the technical issues we've been having. But we appreciate y'all rocking with us as we navigate this season. We're all in this together, guys and man, it's certainly not going the way that we wanted, but at least we get to share this space with y'all. We appreciate the downloads and the listens. Jay, anything else you want to mention to our audience before we wrap up and focus on the homecoming game? I guess man those Isn't it? Tom Coughlin that's being inducted next Sunday.
Speaker 2:Tom Coughlin, the coach, not the executive, necessarily, but Tom Coughlin, the coach, deserves better. In terms of the team that is returning to Duval County next weekend, man TC, probably sick to his stomach watching this team. But yeah, man, oh man, like you feel for TC there. But all of that said, no, not much to add there, as you said, we're all in it together. Man, glad we could do this episode, start getting everybody ready for the future.
Speaker 1:You all know where to find us in the content touchdownjadwarscom, at sportsgrind underscore done on twitter, and at phil, the filipino, on twitter yep, everything you need in the link tree link of the show notes of this episode, our social media, as well as the social media pages for the podcast. And do not forget to check out the website touchdownjaguarscom. Along with downloading that SeatGeek app, Save yourself $20 on your first purchase with the promo code touchdownjaguars. Folks, that is my co-host, James Johnson. I am Phil Smith. Don't forget to continue to tune in to Touchdown Jaguars for every Jaguar touchdown and we will see you next week.