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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 100: Packers/Jaguars Week 8 Analysis - Jags Come Up Short in a Comeback Effort
What if the Jacksonville Jaguars became a powerhouse like the Cowboys or Jets? Would the scrutiny be worth the glory? In our 100th episode of Touchdown Jaguars, we take you on a nostalgic journey through our podcasting adventure, from our roots with Sports Grind Daily to the present, celebrating alongside our loyal listeners. We explore the unique challenges our beloved Jaguars face, and even imagine ourselves in the bustling media spotlight of larger NFL markets, pondering the what-ifs and trade-offs of bigger exposure versus the tight-knit community we've built around our team. With heartfelt gratitude, we thank everyone who has been part of this ride, sharing in the triumphs and trials of supporting the team we love.
As stadium debates heat up, we tackle the ever-present chatter surrounding potential team relocations. Could Kansas City or Carolina be next in line for a move? We dive into the intricacies of the Jaguars' stadium challenges, the role of city officials, and the determination of owner Shad Khan to keep the team rooted in Jacksonville. Our discussion branches into broader league dynamics—how other small market teams navigate similar waters, and the speculative future of NFL relocations. Unpacking these layers reveals both anxiety and anticipation surrounding the future identity of our team and city.
With a critical eye, we dissect the Jaguars’ tumultuous season and the hurdles that lie ahead—including matchups against formidable teams like the Eagles and Vikings. We scrutinize Trevor Lawrence’s performance and the team’s defensive struggles, while reflecting on the broader implications for head coach Doug Peterson’s legacy. Amidst these challenges, we stay hopeful, sharing aspirations for our future in the podcasting world and beyond. Despite the team’s current rough patch, our commitment to the Jaguars community remains unwavering, as we continue to bring engaging and insightful content to our listeners.
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James Johnson and Phil Smith bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Still running. And no, that is a no no. Touchdown Jacksonville. A hundred and nine yards Incredible Play action. Bortles Upstairs Wide open. Tommy Bohannon, touchdown Jacksonville. Looking for Jimmy in the end zone. Touchdown Jaguars. Touchdown Jaguars. Touchdown Jaguars. Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. Here are your hosts, james Johnson and Phil Smith. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your co-host, phil Smith, and joining me, as always, is your other co-host, james Johnson and Jay.
Speaker 1:After a week off, after some things kind of fell through as far as our plans, we are here with episode 100, which is crazy to think about. As far as our journey with Touchdown Jaguars, it started all the way back in the Sports Grind Daily days leading to Jags, den and Believe in the Jaguars and now Touchdown Jaguars. We're just so appreciative of those of you that have been with us since the very beginning, also those of you that may be newer followers of our content and suffice to say, jay, right, we wouldn't be here without all of you guys. So thank you so much. We had planned on having a guest on last week for episode 100. And unfortunately the schedules just did not line up. I mean, we're talking about people that are obviously very busy.
Speaker 1:We're right in the middle of the NFL season, so it's not always the easiest to get some, to get time from some of these guests that we reach out to. However, we fully expect to connect with some of them down the road, hopefully sooner rather than later. But, jay, even though the team itself has continued to disappoint us, I'm very happy to reach this milestone with Touchdown Jaguars. I mean, in terms of the collective episode count, right between you and I, we're well over 100. But in terms of betting on ourselves starting this new project, 100 episodes is nothing to scoff at, especially with, you know, with the podcast landscape, knowing how that is Getting to. This milestone is huge for us and I'm proud of both of us for getting here, even though we're not so proud of our Jacksonville Jaguars. So here we are, jay, episode 100, and, yeah, we definitely have a lot to talk about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, you know the crazy part about it is that the hard part isn't getting on a podcast and having a conversation with one of your best friends, right, like that's what makes it fun. The hard part is seeing the Jaguars week in and week out. Now, if the Jaguars gave us a watchable product like dude, we'd be going full speed at this point, right. But I think all we have to hang our hats on is just that. You know we're two good friends that love to talk football and you know when the product gets better, it'll get better and that'll make it even better. But I think that's what's gotten us, through the years, right of doing this, whether it was Jags, den Touchdown, jag or Sports Grind Daily, whatever the case may be, when we were with Believe. But yeah, man, as you said, man, it is such an honor to do something because, as we mentioned earlier in the year on Twitter, I think it was me and you met through the Jaguars right Twitter, I think it was Me and you met through the Jaguars right, and had not Wayne Weaver brought the team into Jacksonville, this would have never been possible. So when you reflect on that and how we met and how long we've been doing it. It really is nothing to scoff at, as you said, and we hope to be here for many, many, many more episodes. We hope to be here for the day the Jaguars go to the Super Bowl, whenever that is.
Speaker 2:Maybe we'll be old and gray in the face at that time, right, and at that time podcasts will be done in some kind of other format, you know, over the years. Who knows how you will be doing podcasts over the years? But, yeah, man, I can't wait to put together, you know, 100 more episodes. Can't wait to see what the future takes us. And yeah, man, it's honestly a blessing for me to have a friend that would do this for this long with me, because, yeah, a lot of my friends would have been like you know what I'm out, you know, after seeing this team lose for so long. So I appreciate you, man. And, yeah, I can't wait to even though we won't talk about a lot of good news with the team losing, can't wait to knock this milestone episode out of the way, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right back at you, man. It takes two strong willed people to discuss this team for this long. I actually have a question for you in a moment, once we get the housekeeping out of the way that has kind of entered my mind over the last few weeks. Just, you know, watching other franchises because of course you know the Jaguars haven't given us much to look forward to or discuss on the positive side here in the last few months. But we do want to welcome in any of you brand new listeners as well as returning listeners. If you are brand new, welcome to episode 100. Yes, there are 99 other episodes of this podcast. So we thank you so much for joining us and for all you returning listeners. As I shouted you out in the very beginning, thank you guys so much for continuing to rock with us, even though you know the team is doing its damnedest to make this as difficult as possible. But we appreciate you. Make sure you click the link tree link. In the show notes of the episode you will find all of our social media pages, the touchdown Jaguars website, as well as the link to use that SeatGeek promo. A touchdown Jaguars save $20 on your first purchase through SeatGeek, as they continue to sponsor the show. Thank you so much to them and, yeah, we very much appreciate it.
Speaker 1:But yeah, jay, let's get into this here. Like I just said a moment ago, I want to ask you this question before we jump into a little bit of news we didn't really get to talk about over the last couple of weeks because we were off last week and you did a solo episode because I was traveling recently as well. What would you rather be? Because, obviously, as the Jaguars in a small market and we've always kind of been the little brother of the NFL nobody really talks about us. Would you rather be where we're at, you know two and six and seem to be consistently in some sort of rebuild or just some sort of disarray and nobody's talking about us?
Speaker 1:Would you rather be a team like the new york jets or the dallas cowboys? Would you rather be a fan of that team where their failures are always front and center right now, right, like all espn is talking about is aaron rogers and the jets you know they're a failing franchise and the dallas cowboys the debacle that's going on over there with their owner, jerry Jones, and that roster they've constructed. Or even a team such as the Cleveland Browns, who, in terms of just like franchise ineptitude, I feel like are on par with the Jaguars, but because of, obviously, who their quarterback was and but just the Browns in general as a franchise, has always gotten more play than Jacksonville, despite, again, I think, an equal level of ineptitude and basement dwelling. Who would you rather be? Are you happy that we are who we are as far as the Jaguars, or would you rather be a fan of one of those franchises where everybody and their best friend, their mom, their aunt and uncle are talking about their failures?
Speaker 2:You know what. So a part of me would want to be with the bigger market, with your New York Jets of the world as you mentioned, giants, cowboys of the world. The only reason I say a part of me wishes that is because I've always wondered how we would thrive in a large market, and when I say we, I mean you, you and I as podcasters. How would we rank? Because I feel like you know, in my own mind, I feel like we're ogs in the jadwars community, like we. We've been doing it since like 2012, even though we, you know, when we first started it was a general football show and not Jaguars, but then eventually it morphed into Jaguars. So we've been like, when you look at most podcasts, we've been doing this double the amount of time the podcast in the Jaguars community have been doing it, and that's not a knock or anything, I'm just saying like we've been doing it for a minute. I always wondered how would we thrive in a Dallas market with the Cowboys? How would we rank as a Dallas Cowboys podcast or a New York Jets podcast? And I think that would also add to the excitement of it too, from the standpoint of, you know, getting credentialed in one of the biggest media markets in the world, whether that's, you know, new York, whatever the case may be, california. You know that.
Speaker 2:That has always crossed my mind too, but on the flip side, I don't know if I would like like that, because if the spotlight was on us, right, people will be tearing they already are, but it'll be to a harder degree, right. Um, they'd be tearing trevor lawrence apart, when you know it's not all his fault. Some of it is his fault. We'll talk about that today. Fumbling issues came back up, something that we were hoping not to see this year.
Speaker 2:But I digress from my point. They be tearing Trevor Lawrence apart, and I'm already annoyed with the amount of I don't want to say the amount of fingers that are pointed at Trevor Lawrence, but I'm just annoyed at the fact that a lot of people don't do their research before pointing the fingers at him, and I think that would be even magnified if we were in a bigger market. So that would annoy me honestly, and I don't know if I would like this as much. But I don't know if that answers your question, but you know, I think about both sides of the spectrum. To be honest with you. I don't know how you feel about it. I'll be curious to know what your answer is on it stand back and just kind of let things happen to owner.
Speaker 1:I would be okay with being one of those franchises that are front and center all the time, or like, as opposed to jerry jones is always sticking his foot in his mouth, especially lately. You know, like I'm sure you saw him like threaten the radio hosts their jobs, like getting people getting like replacements in there for them. Like imagine if shot or tony khan came on this podcast or like we need to get new podcasters. You'd be like well, we don't work for you. You know what I mean. Like that is just really really funny to me. And then the, the jets owner also just bending his will to whatever aaron rogers wants in that whole clown show. You know what I mean. So since shot khan isn't also our general manager, I would like to think maybe it's a little bit different. But yeah, that is a good point, because, trevor lawrence, I've never seen a quarterback in terms of just the, the league in general, that people just don't pay attention to what he's actually doing. I mean it's so that's why he's become the quarterback of quote-unquote ball knowers, who know, who are watching the film, who are seeing what is happening here in Jacksonville and what he's being surrounded with and the lack of talent that he gets surrounded with, especially on the offensive line. I think it would be a little bit easier because, again, shad Khan doesn't necessarily like to put himself out there like that.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I don't know that I would be able to take being a. I mean, obviously, at one point in time I was a Cowboys fan and I'm a supporter to a degree now because I am from Dallas and I have a lot of friends that are Cowboys fans. But I don't rock with this current regime or the. You know some of the players I have over there. So I certainly wouldn't want to be a Jets fan, that is for sure. So, yeah, I think it's a, it's an interesting discussion, but I'm happy that we stay a little bit on the, the lower end. But yeah, I do also wonder, kind of what, what the audience would look like if we were on a mainstream or a bigger market. But you know just something, the things that I was like thinking about over the last couple days is, again, the cowboys and jets have been in the news constantly because of what's going on over there. So but before we jump into, uh, the game here, that, happened this week yeah real quick, something I want to add to I think in a
Speaker 2:bigger. In a bigger market we possibly would have had to be. We would have been in a fight or two by now, not us, me and you fighting each other, but some fans if we were in a bigger market. Because at times we've been, you know, more vocal than we should have been at times, right, and then sometimes we know when to chill out. But yeah, yeah, no, you make an interesting point. Have been at times right, and then sometimes we know when to chill out. But, um, yeah, yeah, no, you make an interesting point.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't mind seeing, like how shotgun who's hands off and kind of hides in the cut, you know how would he do in a big market. You know, after being bullied, we also like kind of what happened? It feels like what happened at least with the Urban Meyer situation, when Josh Lambeau, you know, went on First Coast News, did interview, then the the actual article came out for the Florida Times Union. Next thing, you know, shah Khan, it feels like at least was bullied into firing Urban Meyer, right, right. So when you look at instances like that, it makes me wonder, like, would that make Sean Conn a better GM?
Speaker 2:Because it's good to be a hands off owner, but also you got a tightrope, that line sometimes of when to step in, and I don't think he understands when to step in, and I think the scrutiny he would face and the embarrassment he would face in a bigger market might help him to become a better owner. And also, too, man. I just wouldn't mind seeing Trent get scrutinized beyond belief in a bigger market too, and I think his flaws would be on a grander scale. Now, look, we've done our best to put this out here of how bad this guy, how bad of a GM he is, and you know how bad he is at his job. But you have to think in a bigger market like it would be amplified, you know like our message would be getting through and you know a lot of people would be echoing those sentiments and a lot of national people would be echoing those sentiments. So when you look at it from that perspective, that would actually maybe help the Jaguars be a better franchise than they are. But I guess we'll never know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, look at what they're doing once again to the GM in New York and Jerry Jones, the GM, and the owner. So, yeah, trent certainly would not be immune to that, and I think he got a little bit of that when he was in San Francisco as well as far as how the Harbaugh situation was handled on his way out. So, yeah, I think, in a way, trent balky gets to hide here and that's one of the reasons, you know, that he has been here for so long, because there is a, uh, you know, an owner who, for whatever reason, just has this faith in him and, um, he's able to kind of keep himself hidden and his discretions and missteps his consistent missteps, mind you, here in Jacksonville kind of get swept under the rug because nobody's really paying attention. So, yeah, we would definitely benefit from that in a big, big way if we were in a bigger market and people were paying attention, because Trent Baalke would have been out of here two, three years ago if this kind of malpractice was going on and we were on a, you know, if we were the Dallas Jaguars, you know, or something like that. So, yeah, really, really good point too. But, um, yeah, we wanted to.
Speaker 1:As far as the future of the team, we do want to talk about something positive, because this did come over or come through a couple weeks ago and we did not get to discuss it, even though we have gone in depth in terms of the stadium rebuild. We did that, of course, earlier in the season in terms of the stadium of the future, but the owners have unanimously approved the renovation deal. This happened back on the 15th, where the NFL owners unanimously approved the Jaguars plans to renovate Everbank Stadium at the owners' meetings in Atlanta, georgia. This was reported by Brent Martineau and 24 votes were required for the proposal to pass, and that went through without any issue. The Jaguars and the city of Jacksonville agreed to a $1.4 billion deal to fund the renovation in May, with costs split roughly 45% to 55% respectively, and the Jaguars will be held responsible for any stadium cost overruns. The deal, paired with a $300 million contribution for targeted community initiatives, split 50-50 between the team and the city. And you know you can go back and listen to some of our older episodes in terms of talking about what this entails and what we expect from that project.
Speaker 1:But, jay, obviously a historic day here in Jacksonville, a big deal for the future of downtown Jax as well, and you know they actually touched on it a little bit during the broadcast on Fox, which was nice, showing some of the renderings. And one thing that I didn't like is, you know I think it was Jonathan Vilma said it reminded him of SoFi, which obviously has been one of my biggest gripes about the design of the stadium. But one thing is for sure this is going to change the city in a big, big way and obviously the most important thing keeps the team around for a bare minimum 30 more years. So yeah, jay, big historic day here in jacksonville. We wanted to at least celebrate it, just because we didn't get a chance to discuss it a couple weeks ago yeah, man, it's just finally the final bit of news that removes the cloud from over our head.
Speaker 2:Um, you know it's something that we've talked about for the entirety of you know we talked about how long we've been doing this. You know whether it's been sports grind daily or whether it's been the Jags den, when we believe this has always been a conversation that has come up Right and will they get the deal done? And you know, as you've always put it, the decision is this as simple as this. You know, everybody had all of these arguments about taxpayer dollars, all of that stuff, but it came down to this Do you want a team or not? And you know, mayor Donna Deegan, who was, you know, put in the office recently, within what the last year or so, decided that she wanted a team, you know, and we got a mayor that you know. Love her or hate her. She loves the jaguars, so that helped right and um, now you know she did her part.
Speaker 2:The only part that was left to do was the owners to sign off on it. And you know what I find crazy, that I want to bring back up, is a conversation that Mike Florio had once we signed off on a deal. Once the city signed off on a deal with Sean Cunn some months ago, mike Florio's ordeal because of course Jads fans instantly went to him for all of the articles he's put up over the years about the Jadwars moving. But his big thing was like okay, well, the Juars and he didn't say it this way, but this is how he was wording it are still kind of not out of the water yet. The owners have to decide on if this is going to happen and they might feel that Shotgun could have gotten more out of the taxpayers and they might send him back to the table to see if he can get a better deal and that would cause some more complications, this, that and the other. And he was also saying that, you know, maybe the owners don't want to set a precedent for such a city. Friendly deal is how you know. I guess I will put it for teams of the future to.
Speaker 2:You know, use that deal as kind of a blueprint of how to get things done. But that's just how the lead works right. As me and you always said this, phil, the blueprint for us was always going to be doing something along the lines of Buffalo right, or using some of the financials that Buffalo provided, because they're another small market team. So that was always going to be a thing and it always going to be a thing, and it will continue to be a thing, where cities are going to look and research and just backtrack and look at other cities that are like their cities, that have done similar deals and how they could get a deal as close to that as possible, even though you have to factor inflation in there.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I just find it funny that Mike Florio tried to, you know, put it out there that maybe the owners wouldn't sign off on it. You know there were some Jags fans like oh, I don't know, man, the owners might not do it, they don't like Jacksonville like that. And here it is. You know we got a unanimous decision. I guess that could be as much. As you know, we critique Shotgun, love him or hate him. I guess that's a sign of you know how much he's respected by the owners. So you know that's a good sign. And yeah, man, I'm just glad that it's done.
Speaker 2:This is a conversation we don't really have to have anymore. I mean, I guess, technically, heading forward, we'll talk about where they are in construction and how it looks forward. We'll talk about where they are in construction and how it looks. And if the Jaguars want to sign us up for a tour during construction, holler at us, please feel free. You know where you can find us. We'll do some tours during construction. And yeah, you know. Really, all that's left to talk about is just how it progresses, the construction of it, how far along they are, you know, if they're behind in construction or if they're ahead in construction and just watching it unfold. Man, and I think that'll be the beautiful part of it it's just watching the cranes bring in all the pillars and all of that and build what should be a turning point or a centerpiece for the city of Jacksonville or a you know a centerpiece for the city of Jacksonville.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with all that. It's pretty crazy to be just around for this. You know what I mean. Like Jacksonville is not supposed to have a team to begin with, and you know.
Speaker 1:To go back to what you were talking about, you know, like the owners don't necessarily like Jacksonville, but you know what they do, like they like other billionaires, and that's what Sh, what shotgun is, and I'm sure you know they've all had their talks on their yachts and all that stuff and shotgun was like, hey, make sure this happens for me, and all of that, whatever goes on, and those nonsense billionaire circles that we'll never know. So it is great to to put the critics to rest and not hear any more of that nonsense for at least you know, 30 or so years and get our stadium the stadium that we deserve and that these fans deserve. And now they just need a team to match what the stadium is going to look like and hopefully that happens sooner rather than later with a brand new general manager, a brand new head coach, and we'll continue to keep up with that. Like you said, jay, we would definitely love to take a tour as that thing starts to take shape and get closer and closer to opening up. Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think the question now becomes, phil, is this, and I'm curious to know your thoughts who now becomes the Jacksonville Jaguars in these talks of they're moving Right and statistics show it's honestly hard to get a team to move it really it takes a lot of work and it's not very common. So I never really understood those conversations in the first place, especially to London and when you factor in the logistics and all of that and the taxes, the difference in taxes and how you would get teams over there and from there and not make it a competitive advantage for whoever moves over there. But who now becomes the Jacksonville Jaguars in these discussions? Because you know, I think Carolina has something mapped out for the future. They're going to renovate their current stadium and then in around 2037, they want to get a whole new stadium which they've already began. Like kind of mapping that out.
Speaker 2:The Bengals kind of come to mind, but you know the Bengals are working on some renovations or planning some renovations, so you know we'll see where that goes. Of course, city officials got to sign off on that and what have you. But who becomes the Jacksonville Jaguars? Because, god knows, we spent way too much time fighting off these battles with us being a team off these battles, with us being that team. And you know I don't wish this on no other fan base, but it's just good that it's not us again. But I'm really curious as to what fan base you think will become us in these discussions?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so looking at a list here from September as far as the oldest stadiums in the league, the oldest stadium is Soldier Field. As far as the oldest stadiums in the league, the oldest stadium is Soldier Field and they're getting that, hopefully. What they want to be is a complete overhaul in terms of a new stadium, a new neighborhood and all of that Lambeau Field. Packers are never going anywhere, especially since they are fan-owned. The Chiefs not going anywhere, although that stadium, that whole thing, needs to be redone. We've talked about the Chiefs Stadium.
Speaker 1:And also their owner has also tried to play hardball with that city. So while I don't think Kansas City would move, I think they have an owner that is Cronky-esque, right Like LA, like St Louis Rams, esque. So that might be interesting because the team will be good, no matter where they go, as long as they still have Patrick Mahomes right. So could Kansas city move to a what is the city that like? They're clamoring for um to have an NFL team. You know, maybe they want another team in Texas. That wouldn't be that big of a move for the Chiefs, and weren't the Chiefs in Texas at one point, weren't they in Dallas at one point? Maybe I'm making that up in the AFL, I'm not 100% sure, but maybe that's a team to keep an eye on.
Speaker 1:New Orleans I don't think they'll ever lose the Saints Miami. I don't think that they would move anywhere. Hard Rock Stadium also got those renovations a few years back, and then Jacksonville was the next one on this list. So if it's not time, but their owner sucks, that guy is trash, right. I don't know if you saw the video of him trying to get broncos fans thrown out of the stadium in denver, like who do you think? Who does this guy think that he is? I cannot stand him. He's the absolute worst owner in the league.
Speaker 1:But maybe Carolina, if the team continues to lose and the owner gets fed up with that fan base and he's like, well, I'll take the team to I don't know wherever. Name this big city here, you know, which are Memphis or something like that A team that could still stay in the NFC South, that doesn't have a an, an nfl franchise yet. So I would keep an eye on carolina and kansas city and and remember kansas city it has nothing to do with how good kansas city is, I'm taught I'm thinking owners specifically that could be real jackasses and and make a move yeah, yeah, phil, you hit the nail on the head with the team.
Speaker 2:I was thinking it's I, it would be Kansas City, and you know that fan base has had some things to say about us, little old Jacksonville. They've had some things to say about us. But you know it'll be crazy to see the tide turn and you know it switched to them in terms of those conversations and you know they floated it out there, the powers that be, I guess I would put it. They floated it out there, that you know they floated it out there, the powers that be, I guess I would put it. They floated it out there that you know they could move to maybe St Louis.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, there you go, there you go. Who should still have their team, by the way?
Speaker 2:who should still, who were wrongfully yeah, who were wrongfully put in a situation where they lost their team in the first place, right?
Speaker 1:Exactly? How about this GA? I just did like a quick Google search. I'm on the San Antonio subreddit and people are talking about the idea of them moving to San Antonio because Clark Hunt is from Dallas. Obviously Dallas doesn't. Well, I wouldn't put past the owners and the league to put another team in Dallas. I'm not, I'll be honest with you. But San Antonio being an option or being a city, that I've heard a lot. I know Austin has been thrown out there a lot too, but Austin, I think, is too much of a college town. I think San Antonio would be on that list. But you know just things. You know just throwing stuff out here, just like people recklessly speculated about Jacksonville for years.
Speaker 2:I don't care, it's our turn now yeah, it's fun to be on the other side of the spectrum, and you're right. Also, you mentioned something earlier. The Chiefs used to be the Dallas Texans a long time ago and I believe that was before Clark Hunt's family owned the team, or if it wasn't. Of course it wasn't Clark Hunt, but it might have been one of his, like grandparents or something like that maybe. But that's even if they own the team. The Hunts own the team at that time at all, but they, at a one point in time, they used to be the Dallas Texans. But yeah, as we were saying, yeah, I mean, you mentioned the state of Texas, but I'm not sure on that because, like there's like, with the power Jerry has, is he going to allow we had this conversation before Is he going to allow another team to come into the state of Texas? I don't know, I compete with him. Yeah, right, right.
Speaker 1:I don't be better than him too, because they would get Patrick Mahomes Right. I think they have, I think, the naming rights it says here for their stadium run into. Oh no, that was a different stadium. So yeah, I don't know, I'm not sure when that lease ends for.
Speaker 2:Arrowhead? Yeah, I'm not sure either, but I do notice those renovations that they're trying to do at Arrowhead now, which might have been shot down by the city council, weren't all that impressive.
Speaker 2:You remember me, you had that discussion it made 31 by the way 2031, 2031, okay, um, but yeah, I mean, you had that discussion, man, like what we're getting for what we're paying and what they were trying to put on kansas city for the 800 million that they had to pay, it was insane. It's like they're paying for some more parking lot features and an escalator to get you from the parking lot into the stadium quicker, and it was very minimal impact on the actual stadium itself. So, after that didn't go through or it may have gone through, I don't know, I have to check but after I don't think that went through and I think, like that really enticed my people to start considering, like, should they move to Missouri? Because, as you said, man, the prestige and the winning championships have have absolutely has nothing to do with if a team will move or not. You know the NFL don't care that that stadium is historic. The only historic stadium they probably care about and the history behind it is, of course, green Bay Stadium, lambeau. But aside from that, like they don't care that it's historic, they don't care that this team is, you know, a team that continually goes to the championship. As a matter of fact, that's all the more reason for them to move, right, they are more of an intriguing team than any team for some city to throw a lot of money at because they win. They actually back up the fact that like hey, you know we want to move, you guys are going to have to foot the bill. What we'll bring to the table is a winning football team.
Speaker 2:You know, like that was always the thing with Jacksonville for me that was always the argument I made with the Jaguars is you know, shaq Khan can want to leave but at the same time he hasn't put up a good enough resume in terms of wins for anybody to be intrigued Like. Who wants to throw a billion dollars at a team that's going to continually go two and whatever, five and whatever. That's not an issue with the Chiefs. They actually have a winning product and while there is very limited places and that's the thing about the NFL now it's very limited places they can go. Now they are pretty much in all of the big markets. It's not really anywhere to go. But for the few remaining places that there are available within the United States to go, maybe they would be fine with forking over that kind of crazy taxpayer money it would take to get a team like the Chiefs, and at least they would then bring in a winning product. So it would kind of pay for itself, if you will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cities I would circle like we just talked about would be San Antonio, st Louis, maybe like a Sacramento or a Portland. Salt Lake City just got an NHL team, so now they have the NBA and the NHL and that would maybe be something to keep an eye on. Speculation for the sake of speculation, because we can and we're about to get a new, a shiny new stadium and you're not so suck it, Kansas City, although I would trade the shiny new stadium for a few of those, maybe just one of those Super Bowl championships. So in the end, they, unfortunately, are still still on top in terms of that. But, jay, let's turn our attention to the football that was played on the field just the other day, actually yesterday.
Speaker 1:We're recording this Monday evening and the Jacksonville Jaguars fell to 2-6 after losing to the Green Bay Packers 30-27 in a comeback effort by Trevor Lawrence and the team, and down by 10 at one point, fought their way back, had a couple of excellent drives right. Trev finished 21-32 for 3-0-8, two touchdowns and one interception. That interception, of course, coming from none other than the NFL and interception leader, xavier McKinney, a guy who was performing the way that we thought Andre Sisco would right. That is the trajectory we had for him this season and that has just not come to fruition. Unfortunately, offensively, elsewhere, tank Bigsby had 18 carries for 78 yards, brian Thomas Jr racked up three catches for 60 yards and a touchdown before going out with injury. Two catches, 59 yards for christian kirk before he unfortunately was lost for the season. We'll talk about that here in just a moment. Um, and it was kind of the brett and strange parker, washington and evan ingram show offensively after that right, um, after those injuries, and that made that last drive for tre Trevor all the more impressive. I mean you're throwing out with all due respect, they're NFL players but I mean you're throwing out Tim Jones, parker, washington, brenton strange, those were his weapons on that final drive and of course obviously Evan Ingram.
Speaker 1:But we saw some good things here. I mean they had halftime it was 13 to 10 and I believe they at one point had the lead 17, 13, before Green Bay rattled off a few and then one up to double digits in the fourth quarter. But it ended the way that it always does and in terms of how games have been going for Jacksonville this year, defensively, there were quite a few missteps, especially on that final drive that led to the field goal that was, of course, hit by who other than a former Jaguar, right? Brandon McManus, after spending one year here, comes back and hits the game-winning field goal as easy a chip shot field goal as you could possibly get. And they two and six jay we were talking about this right before we started like, how do we approach this episode? Because the team is what it is?
Speaker 1:I know a lot of people are throwing out there and a lot of it's jokingly and you know, and some of it's maybe misplaced belief, but the jaguars were two and six in 2022 when they made that big turnaround, but we talked about this as well before getting started. The Houston Texans are not the Tennessee Titans from 2022. Now, granted the Texans at six and two, I think that is a little bit of a I don't want to say fraudulent record, but an inflated record. I mean, they're riddled with injuries. Cj Stroud has been playing, I would say, average to above average football, but certainly not on the superhuman level we saw him playing at last year, but they do have some good wins under their belt.
Speaker 1:So, as opposed to chasing a Tennessee Titans team that was I'm not sure exactly what their record was at that time, back in 2022, but I don't believe they were six and two. This kind of turnaround just doesn't seem like it's going to happen, even if they do find themselves rattling off some wins. We also talked about their next four games. I mentioned that on Twitter are an absolute murderer's row when you talk about their opponents. The Eagles all of a sudden look like they have gotten it figured out. You got the Lions in there, the Texans, then also the Vikings, who are five and two themselves another really good team. So I mean, I guess, jay, just talk about what you saw. And again, even though at times they tried to, we were hoping this would be a different outcome, but at the end of the day, you know, they still end up in the loss column and continuing to trend in the wrong direction when it comes to this season.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I'll start off with Trev and you know, some criticism for him, since, I don't know, maybe some people think I don't criticize him enough. But, as I mentioned earlier and I said we would circle back to this, the fumbles and interception he had, you know, like we, you know, don't want him getting back to that. That was one of the things we were praising him for is he had moved away from the ball security issues. They kind of showed up again. Now, one fumble he was able to jump back on um, but they lost the down and had to kick a field goal for it. So you know, you know that while that's better than turning the ball over, at the same time, um, you know you would like to see that play, have a chance to be a first down instead of a field goal and continue that drive. And then it was another fumble that happened, a drive or two before that. That put the Packers in position to you put one of the daggers in the coffin or one of the nails in the coffin that they put at the end of the game. And he also had a pick as well, where I'm going to have to watch the all 22 on it, but I think he might have thought that the safety was, you know, zoned somewhere else, that he wasn't, that he was on somewhere else and the safety made a beeline to cut the pass off. But I have to look at that again. Again, I only watched the live version and I watched the condensed version at that. So I had to do me a quick review before the podcast because I was working at the time. So I'll go back and look at that, but that's that's worth mentioning. Right, review before the podcast because I was working at the time. So I'll go back and look at that, but that's worth mentioning. Right, we don't need bad Trev Beck. Please stay away from being that guy.
Speaker 2:At the same time, though, you mentioned some good things with him too, man, like him. Just, you know, if it weren't for him, they wouldn't have been in the game in the first place, right? And you know, especially that last offensive drive man, where I think it was Tommy Mack from 1010XL who was critiquing it and saying like, I don't know if that was a good throw by Trev to throw to Evan for that touchdown between three defenders, but I mean to me, man, I thought it was a good throw, like. And if he put it where only Evan can get it, and also I think he had in mind that one of the defenders the defender that was in front of Evan, uh, had his back turn, and anytime you see a defender with their back turn, you know you might want to take that shot, you know. So I thought that throw was better than maybe Tommy Mack did.
Speaker 2:I thought it was one of the more impressive throws that Trevor has made, or gutsy throws he's made, especially when considering you know Trevor early in his career, remember this field, he had a lot of red zone issues and turning the ball over in the red zone and you know for you to go from that to learning your lessons through that and being more careful in the red zone, to go from that to learning your lessons through that and being more careful in the red zone, to go from that to having the guts to make that throw. After all, you've been through in the red zone early in your career. That speaks volumes about Trevor, if you ask me, and you know there were some other throws he made that were very on point in the game. So you know we got some good, we got some bad with him. Also. The other thing I want to talk on is just, you know the defense and just how much of a disappointment you know they've been with Ryan Nielsen and you know here we are. We thought we had a guy that would put everybody in the best position to succeed and things will look better. And you know we were hoping to move on from the struggles we saw with Mike Caldwell. But the defense looks absolutely they look eons worse than they did with Mike Caldwell.
Speaker 2:And I think the important thing about that, or potentially important thing about that, you know, according to Pete Prisco he was the one who had Trent Baalke was the one that had a say in Nielsen being the defensive coordinator. You know. So, with the time that Pete has put in the journalism game, I won't question it or dispute it. You know, if he says it, you know I believe that's a very likely possibility. And, with that being said, you know that feels like a move that, with it going the way that it's going, it feels like he's in a way sabotaging Doug Peterson. And that's not to say Doug Peterson is blameless I've said he needs to be fired as well and I still believe that but in a way he's sabotaging Doug Peterson from being the best that he can be, because this offense feels like a, like a paper mache unit, you know, like they just they have too much give for me. You know they give up too many crucial third downs. It was way too many. Four and five yard runs on, uh, with this Green Bay Packers team against that defense, which is supposed to be more physical than they were last year. Right, that was the thing they emphasize is we'll get more physical and that's not the case and it's just too many.
Speaker 2:Not only that, but also when they're in man coverage, which is something that that's kind of what Ryan Nilsen did a lot in Atlanta. But you know, he's kind of had to dabble in a lot of things now that injuries have occurred and he's just, you know, they just can't figure it out. So he's had to dabble in some more zones, some man. But in man coverage they don't look technical enough to be a man coverage team. It takes a lot of technical aspects, a lot of suddenness, a lot of reactiveness and we don't have that. We absolutely don't have that at all and that's why we look as bad as we look at times, whether it's in man or even when we're in zone two. But aside from that man, just the fundamentals defensively feel like they've gone out of the window Missed tackles, right as I said. People not as sudden and reactive as they should be when it comes to man coverage. People not breaking down in the open field, like I saw Darnell Savage I think it was Kraft, the tight end just like get smoked in the open field by Kraft because you know he just stopped and started on him and Savage just completely missed the tackle.
Speaker 2:And the best players. The crazy part about this thing, man, is we came into this situation thinking our best players will be put in position to win and succeed by Ryan Nelson and it seems like our best players are the ones struggling the most in this defense. Andre Sisco, who I said I thought would get lead the team in picks he's absolutely not the team in picks. He's absolutely not leading the team in picks. He might be leading the team in missed assignments and missed tackles at this point. Who knows, it's been that bad.
Speaker 2:But you look at him. Devin Lloyd and some others who we thought would be highlighted and would be put in better position to succeed and they're not. Josh Hines allen is not looking like we expected him to look and play into his contract as well. So you know there's that and a lot of that could be because he put on a lot of weight too, or you know he's a little bit heavier than he was. So that's something I would love to see fixed next year to like drop that way. Him and cisco need to drop that weight. But guys like JHA Cisco and Devin Lloyd they are not looking remotely close to comfortable at times in this scheme, and that's concerning heading forward. But I also think the worse they look and you know Shaw can be blind at times but the more that makes a case to fire Trent Baalke if he had to say that Pete Prisco said he had to say in bringing in Ryan Nielsen in the first place with the injuries, right.
Speaker 1:So Christian Kirk unfortunately lost for the season and you know, wishing him a quick and speedy recovery, it seems like possible that his time here in Jacksonville will come to an end this offseason. Brian Thomas Jr, dealing with an injury. I know there was that report very briefly from Jeremy Fowler earlier in the day that he would miss two to four weeks with the chest or rib injury. But then you know, drock came out and said it is kind of day to day, so that is kind of still up in the air. There is a chance, I believe, that he will play this weekend. And then Gabe Davis went out as well with an injury. So again, we highlighted you know Trev going down the field with Tim Jones Parker, washington. You know Trev going down the field with Tim Jones Parker, washington. Bretton Strange and you know Evan Ingram.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it just seems like everything around this team is crumbling, whether it be because of scheme, because of guys being out of place, because of injury and listen, every NFL team gets injuries. It's next man up, that's how the NFL works. But it's different because this team isn't operating on a level high enough to be competitive. Well, I won't say not competitive, because they are competitive, they are in quite a few games. But it's those mistakes like Foye and Devin Lloyd, like you just talked about, running in the wrong direction on that. You know that pass from Jordan or from a Malik Willis to the tight end, that ended up being the end of the game. Right, that was it. That was a wrap on everything once that happened. So, yeah, it is very unfortunate because if you go back and listen to the episodes from the beginning of the season, we were just so excited about Ryan Nielsen being here and possibly being exactly what they needed in terms of defensively. You know you could hear the excitement in Trayvon Walker's voice voice, you know, in terms of his excitement when Ryan Nielsen got here. Now, listen, trayvon Walker has been having a solid season so he has benefited from being maybe in a more natural position. But yeah, like you said, it just seems like they're not picking it up. I mean, there's this strange rotation where there are plays where neither Trayvon or JHA are on the field, like what the hell is up with that? And I have no idea what's going on. People have thrown out the conspiracy that Nielsen is like the sleeper agent trying to get Doug Peterson fired. I don't know about all that, but it's fun to speculate. So, yeah, man, I mean the team is what it is at this point.
Speaker 1:It's unfortunate that Brian Thomas Jr is dealing with the injury. Hopefully, but hopefully he will be good to go. But you know, at least he has been the bright spot and again, two drives from Trevor that were amongst the best probably all season. But, yeah, he's got to protect that football. And you are right in terms of the interception, xavier McKinney baited him perfectly. So that's just a good football play, really good defense, and but, yeah, still some things you don't want to see from him in terms of ball security. But it is nice to see him having that confidence in the red zone. You know the touchdown to BTJ and then the touchdown to Evan Ingram, but, yeah, jamming, the team is what it is at this point. I mean, I can't believe.
Speaker 1:In terms of record predictions, I, in order to reach mine, the team would need to win all of their last nine games, because I think I predicted them at 11 and six and you had them at 10 and seven. So you got one more loss left on your record prediction and yeah, it's not looking great for either of us here. It just goes to show what happens, how fickle this business is in terms of sports journalism. But yeah, man. And then looking ahead, in terms of their next few games. We didn't even talk about this, jay, where they got flexed out of their Sunday night football matchup, right, which that makes sense. I totally understand that. Who wants to watch the Jaguars on another primetime matchup after what happened in Buffalo earlier this year? So they went out to play the Eagles next week at 4 pm instead of 8 pm. So yeah, but these next few games, I do not see a victory here.
Speaker 1:Philly, minnesota, detroit, houston, and then you play at tennessee. We know how that goes. Um, we're not looking at a, a game that I think maybe they could possibly win until december 15th against the jets, which will be another throwback jersey game. So maybe that's the secret, maybe that's the secret sauce, and they'll be more inclined to bring back the Prowler jersey as their primary. We talked about that a little bit a couple weeks ago when they played the Colts got that first one of the year. We don't necessarily want to see it all the time, but heck, if it leads to them winning. Maybe that's what they need to do, but we're talking about going maybe two months without a win, because they had, of course, the Patriots victory. That was back on October 20th, and then they might not. You know there's not a game on their schedule again.
Speaker 2:That seems winnable until December 15th and that's insane yeah, I mean insane sums up this season and not in a good way, man. So I personally, you know, kind of can't wait for November, because you know we'll maybe get some more direction on, like, what they'll do about the future. Right, because at this point man and I have been saying it on the radio too, man like they're not gonna crawl themselves out of this hole. Two weeks ago, when Shotgun was interviewed by the Florida Times Union and he was saying he believes in Trent and Doug, I was saying it then like that's not realistic for him to believe that they can crawl themselves out of this hole, because the Jaguars are no longer the new kid on the block. That's why they were able to do it before. Right, it was the element of surprise a little bit, people still trying to figure out who they were.
Speaker 2:Doug Peterson, their first time head coach, you know, not a first time head coach, but their first time head coach. So it was a lot of newness surrounding it. But look, man, the league has shown us this time and time again. Right Is, you know, you can see a first year head coach have some success with the right talent. And then, after the film is developed on them. Where do they go from there? That's what separate the good ones from the great ones. And I know Doug Peterson had a Superbowl, but it's feeling like that might be one of the luckiest Superbowls in recent history. Right, you know, and I get it, you don't just necessarily look into the Superbowl. I can argue differently. I think it takes a lot of luck to get into the Super Bowl, especially avoiding injuries and a lot of other factors.
Speaker 1:But we're just in a situation where, as you put it perfectly, man, it's just insane in terms of where they went from the preseason, the hopes and expectations they had then, and to where they are now yeah, well, uh, you know, the sooner we enter the offseason and talk about the nfl draft where, as we always say, the jaguars are offseason champions the better, because the way things are going it just makes for. What was the saying a couple years ago? It was way too many long sundays. Right, I think they need to bring that back, because that is where we are at with the Jaguars. But, jay, anything else you want to mention as we wrap up episode 100? Like we said, we definitely want to bring in a guest here eventually over the next couple of weeks. We just need to work out those schedules and figure it out logistically on that end. But, yeah, man, 100 of these down and, like you said, many, many more to go. Anything else you want to mention before we wrap up this one and focus on the next 100?
Speaker 2:The only thing I want to add is one idea that crossed my head, phil, about what to do with the 100th episode. Since we couldn't get a guess, I was thinking about hooking up the roadcaster and phoning Stodge in so he can let us know how he feels about his prediction of Trent Baalke being the best GML. We should have put him on the spotlight for that. That would have made.
Speaker 1:I remember him saying that. I remember him saying that.
Speaker 2:So right, oh my god. But no, I'm just joking there, I, with how Twitter works these days. He might get some tweets about that, like people might legit come at my game for it. Um, but no, we, we were just BS in there, man. But yeah, no, man, glad to reach this milestone with you, hope to have many more and hit new heights as well. Right, you know, we have still aspirations that we got to mark off of the checklist, right, going to the Super Bowl as credentialed members, going to radio role, you know, going to the draft, so on and so forth. So here's the many more, and hopefully, as you said earlier, we'll have the product on the field to make it even easier on us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we all know this podcast is a lot more fun when the Jaguars are winning, so hopefully there is more of that in our future. But, folks, thank you so much once again for joining Touchdown Jaguars for our 100th episode. Again, cannot express enough gratitude and thanks to all of you for making this possible. We will continue to do our very best here on our end as we continue to create content and put out everything we possibly can for you in terms of this team that we for some reason love, but we are, we are tied to. If you're, you've been here for this long, you are a true fan and we're in this together, so we're going to help you through it, guys.
Speaker 1:So make sure you check the link tree link in the show notes of this episode. You'll find everything you need social media pages, personal pages for both Jay and myself, as well as the Touchdown Jaguars Twitter page. You can also find a link to the website touchdownjaguarscom. And, as a reminder once again, as we enter not only as we continue football season, but also enter basketball season, hockey season and obviously a whole bunch of concerts going on right now, use that promo code TouchdownCHDOWNJAGUARS over on SeatGeek. It's very, very beneficial to the show as well as leaving us reviews, five-star reviews on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. All of those things go a very, very long way and helps the podcast tremendously. Folks, for the 100th time, that is my co-host, james Johnson. I am Phil Smith, and do not forget to continue to tune in to Touchdown Jaguars for each and every Jaguar touchdown, and we'll see you next week.