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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 102: Vikings/Jaguars Week 10 Analysis - Offense No Shows in a Defensive Struggle
Is Trevor Lawrence's injury the pivotal point that could redefine the Jacksonville Jaguars' season? Join us as we dissect the disappointing 12-7 loss to the Minnesota Vikings and navigate through the storm of rumors and frustrations hovering over the Jaguars. We scrutinize Trevor Lawrence's critical role and his absence, which left glaring holes in the offense, drawing inevitable parallels with other quarterbacks like Mac Jones. The episode takes a deep dive into Doug Pederson's controversial media moments and the defensive silver linings that emerged amidst the chaos.
Frustration is brewing in Jacksonville, and we're putting the spotlight on the leadership decisions that are igniting fan discontent. With General Manager Trent Baalke and Head Coach Doug Pederson under fire, we examine their impact on the team’s trajectory and fan engagement. As the Jaguars face off with the Detroit Lions, we ponder the implications of this game on future leadership decisions, including potential changes that could reshape the team’s front office and coaching staff. The stark contrast between the Jaguars' approach and the proactive strategies of the Chicago Bears highlights the need for strategic shifts in Jacksonville.
Explore with us the high-stakes world of NFL coaching opportunities, as we consider which teams might hold the most allure for aspiring head coaches—could Jacksonville’s talent pool offer a brighter future, or do the Chicago Bears present a more enticing challenge? We wrap up with a look ahead at the potential shake-ups in Jaguars leadership post-Lions game, contemplating whether swift changes could steer the franchise back on course. Through it all, we remain committed to bringing you the insights and analysis that matter most to Jaguars fans.
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James Johnson and Phil Smith bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. Here are your hosts, james Johnson and Phil Smith. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your co-host, phil Smith, and joining us, as always, is your other co-host, james Johnson and Jay.
Speaker 1:Here we are, episode 102 of the Touchdown Jaguars podcast, and even though we are in our next set of 100 episodes, unfortunately the result for the Jacksonville Jaguars has not changed. So, despite the loss and despite things continuing to just spiral out of control for this team, it is good to be back here with you, jay, as we missed last week together because I was doing some traveling. I was out in Dallas with my family and came home to the Jaguars not doing a whole lot right, they can't move the ball down the field. Trevor Lawrence is hurt and there's all these rumors swirling about his camp and what's going on over there, and there's all these rumors swirling about his camp and what's going on over there. Doug Peterson thinks that he's better than everybody in that media room, brett Martineau included, and you know it's just not getting any better and we got to wonder how much worse it's going to get before it does get better.
Speaker 1:So we are going to talk about some of those things here in today's episode we are also going to, you know we'll probably briefly discuss the game, but more so just talk about the state of the team. We saw Austin Lane certainly and understandably upset about how Doug Peterson is responding to Brenton Martin. No, obviously they're their co-hosts, their buddies and just the fan base in general being pretty sick of it. So we're going to break all that down here today in episode 102. But you know, first and foremost, like I said, good to be back here with you recording this evening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, we're just counting down the days of, you know, getting that notification that Doug Peterson is gone, right, kind of like we were counting down the days for Urban Meyer on, right, kind of like we were counting down the days for Urban Meyer, but with Urban, I guess we didn't have a lot of time to prepare for it, because the Josh Lambeau stuff kind of came out of nowhere. And then that's when we realized like, oh, this is a possibility, right. But I digress from my point. Man, yeah, man can't wait to discuss and break down the game which was, you know it was a loss, but at least it was like entertaining. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I think the last game before it was pretty entertaining too which I did the solo on. So it wasn't a lot of scoring necessarily, but it was entertaining from a perspective of the defense at least showed up, right, they, they had multiple picks from the secondary. So, um, you know, that's something we haven't seen. You know, this team hasn't been able to like, really generate picks in this ryan nielsen defense, and that was kind of a thing with when he was with the falcons too. So, um, I think that's one of the more interesting takes from it, uh, but nonetheless, you know there's no moral victories in football, but some, certainly some interesting things to talk about in terms of the game and, as you said, you know just some of the rumblings and rumors.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it was entertaining in the sense that you know they were in the game like they had a chance to win at the end. But I'll be honest with you, like just going through and watching the condensed version of the game, like I was struggling. I had to do it in two different sittings because I was kind of like falling asleep. But you know that's, that is what it is, especially watching Mac Jones play quarterback and Sam Darnold. Reverting to who Sam Darnold most likely is, I know people were kind of like making a big deal about Doug Peterson being asked like what do you think was like key to the turnaround of Sam Darnold? And he said Justin Jefferson. And listen, Justin Jefferson could make either one of us look good at quarterback. So you know, even though we're pretty frustrated with Doug, he wasn't necessarily wrong, Right? You know Jacksonville has been pretty frustrated with Doug. He wasn't necessarily wrong, right? You know Jacksonville has been in some of these games, just like last week's game you talked about with Philly. They had a chance to win that game. They certainly could have won this one and, you know, chalk it up to another instance where they just could not wrap things up this past Sunday. But we're going to dive into all of that here in just a moment.
Speaker 1:I want to welcome in any brand new and returning listeners to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast, episode 102. For those of you that are new, make sure you check the Linktree link in the show notes of this episode. You'll find everything you need as far as social media pages, the website touchdownjaguarscom, as well as our promo code, Touchdown Jaguars, so you can save yourself $20 on your first purchase with SeatGeek. So, with all that being said, Jay, let's go ahead and just dive right in. We will start with the game, as the Jaguars fell to the Minnesota Vikings 12-7. And that is not a baseball score, that is a football score. Four field goals for the Minnesota Vikings from a kicker in, John Parker Romo, who I believe had just been added to the team the previous week. I mean, they mentioned it enough on the damn telecast, didn't they, that he had just won a kicking competition, but he ended up being the big difference for the Minnesota Vikings.
Speaker 1:The Jaguars held a lead, I would say, for a good portion of this game, into the fourth quarter, if I recall correctly right, Jay, where they were up either 7-3 or 7-6. But it was just not a fun game to watch from an offensive standpoint, but we did see the defense doing a lot of swarming. You know, Justin Jefferson was pretty much held in check 5 for 48. And Sam Darnold, like we alluded to, had a really rough day 24 of 38, three interceptions. Probably should have had four, but he certainly did not look good.
Speaker 1:Aaron Jones had a pretty decent day on the run 17 carries for 88 yards, but the sole touchdown was scored on a Mack Jones quarterback sneak down there at the one. So other than that, as far as offense goes, like I said, not really a whole lot to write home about, but we did see some encouraging things defensively, Although I don't know how encouraging things can really be when your team is two and eight Right can really be when your team is two and eight right. So, um, yeah, just kind of walk us through it, because you just recently finished, uh, watching the condensed version as well. What did you see? What did you like?
Speaker 2:what didn't you like as far as the jaguars most recent loss yeah, so well, first and foremost, man, I think one thing we need to get out of the way here let's kill the Matt Jones noise, right, because a lot of people were trying to, you know, hype him up to be somebody who the Patriots basically failed and you know they did, I'll admit that and that he would just latch on with another team and, you know, take off, and a lot of people thought that would be the Jacksonville Jaguars. I mean, when, looking at the game he was what? 14 to 22 for 111 yards. It wasn't really impressive. Had a couple of picks which you know. One of those picks was a play that sparked the controversy of Brent Martineau's question that Doug, you know, gave him a snooty answer on. So we'll, I guess we'll probably talk about that later down the road.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, let's let's kill the Mac Jones noise because, as we saw, a lot of people now owe Trevor Lawrence an apology and it's clear as day that I think somebody put it might have been John Shipley. Um, I might, if I can recall. I might be misquoting him, but somebody said this. But it's kind of clear that Trevor Lawrence has kind of been elevating the offense and that's the biggest thing that I'm happy about with this game is that people saw and especially the national analysts saw just how lethargic and just how ineffective this offense is without Trevor Lawrence right, and it also presented a opportunity for us not to hear a lot of Trevor Lawrence, um, I guess, uh hatred and and takes from the national media as well for how he performed throughout the week because obviously he didn't play, or how he performed on Sunday because obviously he did not play. So I think that's a big takeaway to take out of this is that I feel like Trevor Lawrence, you know, has been carrying this team a little bit now looking at how Matt Jones was able to perform, bit now looking at how Matt Jones was able to perform, and I just hope he sits for the rest of the year at this point and just protects himself. We don't know how severe the injury is, but you know, the further along we got throughout the weekend, you know it went from kind of maybe he'll need surgery, then it went to kind of you know, surgery is under consideration type of thing. So we'll have to monitor that heading forward.
Speaker 2:And then, in terms of the rest of the game, I think, just to keep it brief, what it came down to is, while we were and I was the person that said this that you know like the exciting part of it was the defense getting all the picks that they did right. But I think what ultimately hurt them and this game, make no mistake about it, does not fall on the defense, but I think what ultimately hurt them in terms of when you look at it from the defensive side since I already spent a lot of time speaking on Mac Jones and the offensive side is the center of the field was open a lot. And you know there were times where, obviously, sam Darnold should have come away out of this game with, you know, 24 points, 28 points, something like that, but he would utilize the middle of the field well and then get to the end zone and throw a pick or something crazy happens. So they killed us in the middle of the field. I'll say that your guy, josh Oliver, that you've been hyping up for many, many years, tj Hawkinson, doing his thing in the middle, justin Jefferson, they held him in check for only what? Five catches for 48 yards, but I think he had a few in the middle, if I can recall as well too. So the middle of the defense was kind of victimized.
Speaker 2:And also, too, while Aaron Jones didn't get a lot of carries right field, it felt like every time that man touched the ball he was getting five yards or more.
Speaker 2:I mean, well, his average says that all he had 5.2 yards on the day, but every time he touched the ball was an easy five, six, seven yards, and not just him. It felt like it was that way for um, the other running backs as well, and sam donald. When sam donald took off from within the pocket, he got an easy five, six, seven yards. So I think when you look at the 12 points that the vikers were to get, that's what it boils now to is the Jaguar struggle in the passing game in the middle of the field and also just Aaron Jones getting yards and chunks, although you know he kind of it looks like he had a quiet day, but when he took it, when he did touch the ball, he was pretty effective with it. And you know, when you got an offense that only put up seven points, that's all you need. You know, even with the three picks that Sam Darnold threw.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that, because the person that did come out victorious this weekend is Trevor Lawrence, right, I mean, he has been making this offense look better than it actually is and has been carrying this team for essentially as long as we can remember. I mean, all the evidence was there, right, last season when he went down with the injury, tries to play through it, and then the team just isn't the same, right? I mean, we're a year removed from talking about the Jaguars having the number one seed in the AFC, and that wasn't on accident, like Trevor was cooking. And, yes, they were getting carved up by the backup quarterback for the Cincinnati Bengals, but that wasn't Trev's fault. He was going, you know, shot for shot with Cincinnati the name of that QB is escaping me right now, but it's not a coincidence that when he went down, then the team went down. As Trevor goes, they go.
Speaker 1:One thing that's really frustrating is something that happened elsewhere in the league today. I'm recording this on November 12th, the evening of November 12th, and the Chicago Bears fired their offensive coordinator today. Right, they stepped away from Shane Waldron and they are in a somewhat similar position than us as us. Right, they bring in this generational quarterback, who some people say is a generational quarterback. You and I have obviously always felt a little indifferent towards Caleb Williams, but that's beside the point. But they recognize that Shane Waldron, that their offensive coordinator, is bad for the development of their quarterback. Right, they were four and two, you know, one of those wins against us, unfortunately. But I think since then they've lost three straight and they also have a you know, messy situation when it comes to their head coach.
Speaker 1:That guy's probably not going to be there going forward. But regardless, the Bears identified and understood that their current situation at offensive coordinator was not good enough and actually could be hurting the development of their star hopefully star quarterback and franchise and future franchise. Meanwhile you have doug peterson over here pushing Press Taylor around in a stroller and bringing him wherever he goes and standing by this person and ultimately it's going to cost him another NFL job. And he's in the press box talking to somebody who is esteemed and who has done everything by the book and who is just beloved by essentially everybody in Brent Martin know and he's talking down to him because he fell backwards into a Super Bowl, because he had a general manager that carried and called him all the way there and Nick Foles won on a generational run. So even though the Chicago Bears like we kind of touched on this a couple weeks ago, right, jay, we said would you rather be an organization that's always in the spotlight, which a big market like Chicago is going to be, or Jacksonville? Even though the Bears are a mess, at least they're doing something that will hopefully be for the betterment of their quarterback. And you also touched on this a couple weeks ago as well. If a general manager found themselves once again picking first overall for the third time in five years in dallas, in la, in baltimore, in new york, the people at espn and nfl network would be throwing things at the wall, wondering how somebody like that still has a job.
Speaker 1:So Trambolke is also benefiting from Jacksonville being in a small market because he gets to hide behind his mistakes year after year after year after year and somehow convince the Khans that he is doing a good job. Convince the Khans that he is doing a good job. So I hope that Shad Khan's you know yacht, super yacht, being in the in the St John's river is a precursor to both of them being shown the door. We don't ever want to campaign for people losing their job, losing their livelihood, but when you're effectively just making things worse and going to have this attitude, why do I want you part of my organization? I hope, I hope shot and Tony Khan are having those conversations and seeing what is being said, I bet those two have great respect for Brent Martino. I bet they wouldn't talk to him like that. So I know I I stepped away from talking about the actual game, but like, like, this is just so frustrating. And again, the game is boring anyway, so who cares?
Speaker 2:but seeing what the Bears did today frustrated me even more about what we're not doing here yeah, yeah, you mentioned something there with you know them, moving on from Shane Waldron, that I want to kind of hit on too. This is just, you know me being a Bulldog fan, but Thomas Brown will be the interim OC replacing him. So go Dogs right there. So Thomas Brown will actually get a shot, and I think Thomas Brown used to be an offensive coordinator at one point in time for the Panthers, like a year or two ago. He'll get a shot at, you know, helping maybe Caleb Williams get things right over there.
Speaker 2:And I know this is a Jaguars podcast, but you know you did mention the Shane Waldron thing and yeah, man, like everybody already heard my take on the whole situation with you know what he said to the, not just Brent, but just to the media in general. And it is because you know it's the and I think T Witt kind of said this and he said it perfectly Like he's probably protecting his son at this point, because how Press Taylor looks is a indictment on him as a, you know, as ultimately the guy that has been his mentor. So you know, I'm not saying that makes it right. You know his attitude towards the media or what have you, but I guess, like the way we should look at it. Is somebody kind of, as you said, feel coddling or whatever the case may be his son, but still, I mean, at the end of the day, as I said in my tweet, first and foremost, you're a grown man and you need to know how to talk to the other grown people, first and foremost.
Speaker 2:Secondly, brent Martin, though, to my knowledge and we've been in the media room multiple times at this point has always been respectful, right, and has always not only done, been super respectful, but you know, he, he and the rest of the media, to my to my knowledge, again, we haven't been in there like all year, every year, but, um, they're, they've been very respectful of coaches, boundaries and what have you, and it's not like a media room, and that's the thing that that irks me. We're not talking about a la like media room, right. We're not talking about a philadelphia like media room where the writers and you know the beat writers and reporters can get a little bit too pushy and like skip bayless isn't standing outside of the locker room.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like we're talking about. We're talking about, like stand-up people. We're talking about, you know, mia, we're talking about john shipley, uh, brent, you know, we're talking about all these people who are good people and he's talking to them like that.
Speaker 2:Right, demetrius, so on and so forth. It's not in a prime example of this. It's not like the Joel and B situation, where a beat report is mentioned in Joel and B's you know people that have passed on from his family which is really just utterly just ridiculous. Why would you do that? First and foremost and you know you can't you can absolutely understand where Joel and B would be upset with. That is why I brought that up. It's not anything like that where it's a super messy media room. For the most part, from everything we've seen in the encounters we've been in there, everybody was welcoming and, you know, nobody really really pushes the coaches like that. And, as a matter of fact, for years and years the big thing has been, at least from the fans' perspective, is like you guys didn't drill the coach enough. You guys didn't drill Shaq Khan enough. You guys didn't drill Trent Baalke enough when they took the podium and the few times that they do take the podium, you guys didn't ask the hard hitting questions like you should. So for Doug to kind of like you know, lash out at the media room in general, like that kind of struck a chord with me, as you're also on Twitter and as you said, you mentioned the same thing that I mentioned. Man, like you know, now he's trying to act like you know what don't stink because he basically, you know he took advantage of a run where Howie Roseman drafted very well. And now we're starting to see and I was including me in this I was fooled by what we saw over in Philadelphia and you all have heard me talk about it for years and years that 2017 team and what they had and how well they executed things on offense. I was fooled as well, but the further we get away from 2017 and that run, it's becoming abundantly clear that Howie Roseman, in terms of what he drafted and what he had in place, carried Doug, and I think that's kind of why Doug is upset too.
Speaker 2:He came here in a situation willingly, by the way where he joined Trent Baalke, who is nowhere near as good as Howie Roseman, and, as a result, press Taylor is suffering. As a result, your other assistants are suffering. Right, you had to fire Mike Caldwell last year and you probably didn't want to do that. You had to, you know, fire some of his assistants. You probably didn't want to do that, but at the end of the day, you willingly came to Jacksonville, all right, and when you came to Jacksonville, you should have known that that was going to be.
Speaker 2:Part of the territory is that they were going to have to fight an uphill battle because Trent Baalke does not draft as well as Howie Roseman Clear, cut and dry. Howie Roseman is probably a what? Top seven GM, most people would say, if some people will even say top five that year, in 2017, he was drafting like maybe a top four GM at that point. And you came here with Trent Baalke, who doesn't draft nearly as well, who will take five off-ball linebackers in three or four consecutive drafts. That may not help the team in the moments that they need them the most. Now, you know, obviously that's kind of helped now because the defense was a little beat up, so it did help in this case. But how is that helping Trevor Lawrence, right, who is missing games now and missed games last year? How is that, um, you know, helping press taylor as well, who you know you're defending week in and week out? But you willingly walked into this situation and you put press in a terrible situation because you put them in a situation where the they don't have what they need in the trenches. That's what it boils down to.
Speaker 2:Phil howie roseman had the top offensive line in football in 2017, uh, who he either drafted or got in free agency. And you came here to Trent Baalke, who is probably arguably a top bottom five drafter when it comes to the offensive line, and that's why Press Taylor is struggling. That's why anything that they've tried to concoct doesn't go well offensively. It's because they can't move anybody off the ball on offense and, arguably, in the defensive trenches either, they can't get in the backfield at times. So, that being said, you know, when Doug lashes out at these people, at the end of the day, he has to remember you asked for this. You joined Trent Baalke because he was probably one of the only people that would, you know, come to this organization with you being the GM and, at the end of the day, if you look at it from that perspective, that alone explains why he might be mad at the questions that are coming his way week in and week out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is again ridiculous because, like you keep saying, this is what you wanted. You knew what went into partnering with Trent Balke. I'm sure he has feelers and friends out there that are very familiar with what went down in San Francisco and in a way, honestly, jay, these two were meant for each other. And like, in a way, honestly, jay, these two were meant for each other. Trent Bulkey is terrible at his job but sticks to his vision and Doug Peterson has his son, press Taylor. They both have their vices and they both refuse to admit when they've made a mistake or when they're wrong. So in a way, you know what. They're perfect for each other. Maybe they'll reunite somewhere in the future and ruin another football team, because I think we talked about this like a couple weeks ago, maybe like very early into the season. Like, is Doug Peterson going to get another head coaching job again? I don't think so. Trent Balke, where is he going to land ever again after all this? You know, like, if Trent Balky and I think it was Hicken who mentioned this on the on the radio if Trent Balky makes this pick again, I'm 100% canceling my season tickets. There's absolutely no way. I'm barely going to any more games this year. Anyway, just so you guys know, and I'm sure you won't be surprised, like I couldn't give my tickets away this past Sunday, no one wanted them. I tried to give them away two of them for free, and you know, I'm sure a lot of that had to do with, you know, trevor Lawrence not playing, but I mean, it's still an NFL product, right, it's still Justin Jefferson on the other side which I in all in all probably would have liked to see play, even though he didn't have a very good game. But like, this is the you know, whatever you know, whatever you know, you know how they say that, saying like the hottest ticket in town, the jaguars are whatever. The opposite of that is now right. I'm not going to go to the game in the first um against the texans, that is, I'll be in orlando for a concert. I probably won't be at a game again until the next throwback game against the jets. Uh, because I really enjoy seeing Aaron Rodgers lose. So I hope they come out of that game with a dub.
Speaker 1:But this team is just becoming. As long as Doug Peterson and Trambolke are still part of this organization, I really have no desire to watch or support the product that's on the field and really at this point it's more so a respect and a love for the players that are on this team because I feel for them. I know they're trying hard, but if Tramp Balki is still in charge of putting this team together and we still have a number one overall pick where I think you could pencil in a top three pick bare minimum, then I'm out. I don't care that this new stadium is coming in until Trent Baalke is removed from his position. Doug, I think, is out the door sooner rather than later. We'll talk about that here in just a moment.
Speaker 1:But Trent Baalke's got to go and I really hope that ShotKhan and Tony Khan have brought in whoever. It is some sort of trust We've talked about that a lot here over the last couple weeks some sort of group that has spoken to him, people that he trusts, people that he believes in, and they all tell him hey, these guys got to go, both of them. It can't be a halfway fix, it's got to go all the way. So we'll see what happens. But yeah, yeah, you can mark it down right here jay 9 32 pm, eastern time. November 12, 2024, if trent bulky is still picking for the jaguars when the nfl draft rolls around in april. I'm done, man.
Speaker 2:I can't do it yeah, I mean, that's crossed my mind too as well Like if Trent is picking for this team and yeah, it was Hicken that kind of brought that topic up but if Trent is picking again, like you know what I thought about, I kind of, you know, I put this in our text thread, but it's like we may need to go back to being a general podcast, a general NFL podcast, because I don't know if I could cover the Jazz again with Trent Baalke leading the way or steering the ship, and that's concerning that. You know, that is a thought process. Now I will say this there is a lot of people saying that you know, go to the building routinely, that they haven't had any indication that Trent's safe, right, and it could be a little bit of paranoia on our part as Jazz fans to think he'll stick, because he's always been able to stick and get in Sean Conn's mind and Tony Conn's mind and somehow just pull a, I guess, a little finger for those of you who watch Game of Thrones and just kind of manipulate them. So I guess, like you know, the Jags fans are rightfully paranoid. But a lot of people that you know report to the building are, you know, saying like they don't get any indication that he's safe. Now they're not saying that he's gone either, but nobody's getting an indication that he's safe.
Speaker 2:And here we are.
Speaker 2:This is what the middle of November, you know. I think that could be a positive sign and I think it could also be a positive sign that and I would have to kind of go back and see how the trend or the pattern is going in years prior, but it may be it's a positive sign that we're not hearing from Ian Rappaport in terms of Trent's job status yet in the, you know, jonathan Jones of the world, and maybe it's a little too early for that right now. Again, I would have to go back to years prior to find out when we started getting inklings that Trent was safe or not. But it's kind of been quiet in general, aside from, you know, we'll hear. Of course, doug Peters is on the hot seat because the national media is big on sports betting and you know they always bring up the topic of you know who's the odds-on favorite to be fired next. So that's kind of been a thing. But you know, maybe the quietness and the no-news-is-good-news thing could be applied for Trent Baalke too. But we'll see and time will tell.
Speaker 1:Yeah, time will tell. Indeed, We'll talk about that here in just a moment. It really does bother me when you look at these losses too aside from the Bills loss, which was just obviously a disaster disaster I mean you're talking about, and the bears lost that, that was a 19 point loss but you're talking about losses by three, five, four, three, five, five. Like man, anything that could go wrong has gone wrong, and that is a. That's a um, you know a cultural thing the Jaguars are culturally associated with losing. That's what Trambulki and Doug Peterson have put together here. It is what it is. They're going to get absolutely just railroaded by the Lions this upcoming weekend. I don't think there's any ifs, ands or buts about that.
Speaker 1:I have been graciously accepted to the Lions bandwagon via Twitter, jay, we were talking about that over the weekend. The Lions were my first NFL fandom. I grew up in Michigan. For about four years I went to elementary school there and those were the rough years. Man, those were the Scott Mitchell, barry Sanders, herman Moore, johnny Morton, like those are the guys. John Hanson, I think, was the name of the kicker. Those were the rough times in Detroit. That's when I was a fan of the Lions. But then, of course, you know, the Jaguars showed up in 95 and I kind of moved over to rooting for them. But I've always been a fan of the Lions in the background rooting for them. And now that they're in this place, you, you know, I'll happily jump on that bandwagon, although I have also declared that if they start losing games I'll hop out, I'll hop back off the bandwagon for the sake of the team's success. So that does lead us to the next question here. Jay, we want to talk about here in the episode is when do we think this is?
Speaker 2:going yeah I wanted to add something real quick, just get your opinion on something. Yeah, all right. So, yeah, um, so, real quick, feel, and you can let me know if I'm missing any teams that come to mind. But uh, this is a idea that popped in my head in terms of a topic I wanted to get your opinion on. So, of course, obviously, the Jags aren't the only team that are going to be looking for a coach next year. That being said, of the teams that are being mentioned for openings head coach openings, you know your Saints of the world, us, the Jets, the Cowboys, the Bears, Bears probably.
Speaker 2:Yeah, bears, yeah, the Bears. Who do you think has the most appealing opportunity to go to if you're a head coach?
Speaker 1:I think it is probably Chicago because of Caleb Williams and they do have weapons there in place. You just have to fix that team from the inside out of that franchise and those fans. I think it's probably Chicago. I think, if it's the right person, then the Cowboys job. I mean, listen, that roster is a mess. But I mean, people have been throwing out especially ESPN. I think it was Jeff Satter, no, no, no, it was Rex Ryan was throwing out Deion Sanders to the Cowboys. And listen, I'm not really a Cowboys supporter or fan anymore, but for the pure spectacle of it, sign me up for Prime in Dallas. I think it would be a disaster.
Speaker 1:Personally, and you think the Cowboys are entertaining now, imagine if Deion Sanders was their head coach. But if I had to rank them, I think I would put Chicago first and then, honestly, I would put Jacksonville because of, obviously, trevor. But you know you're looking at Brian Thomas Jr, tank Bigsby, you've got guys on the defensive side and you have the number one pick. Most likely Jacksonville should be up there and, like you've talked about in the past, a hands off owner, jacksonville should be up there. But I think it will probably be Chicago because of the people being so enamored with Caleb Williams, even though you know, like you have pointed out, there were some things that were concerning and lo and behold, those things are coming to light. What do you think?
Speaker 2:to light. What do you think? You know this isn't biased, but I think it's us, and here's why Chicago does make a compelling case. But I think what has hurt Chicago and why they are where they are now and this is just stuff you see in reports, right and just within the social media community is I think Chicago may be where they are because they don't like the pay head coaches crazy money, right. So, that being said, that kind of would give us more appeal because obviously Sean Conn's got the wallet you know what I'm saying and he doesn't mind spending. I mean at least that we've seen he doesn't mind spending. So I think that will maybe give us the nod Now in terms of not roster wise, which is the point you were making. I don't know, I still like us over them. And a head coach, right, that's taken, that has at least a decent to great players at the premium positions, and what I mean by that is you look at Brian Thomas Jr. I think we all believe he'll be a number one and whatever coach gets him will have the common sense to utilize him and go to him as much as they should, and that'll change the trajectory of his career.
Speaker 2:You look at the other premium positions, you're set at defensive end, right. Josh Allen, joshua Hines Allen, who I know, you know I critiqued a few weeks ago saying that he's kind of going silent. But when I watched the tape a little bit more and went back and looked at him solely, he's still him. Trayvon Walker is still doing good things and you know the light is being shined on him. I know he had the boneheaded penalty but you know, when it comes to getting Doug out of here, I guess nobody really cares because that's just helping the case to get out. But Trayvon Walker, he has a light shine on him because obviously Aiden Hutchinson is injured at the moment and now people could kind of get to put the lens on him, so to speak. So he's answered the call for the most part. So that's three premium positions between Brian Thomas, josh Hines-Allen and Trayvon Walker, arguably some of the most important positions on the field.
Speaker 2:Then you come to Trevor Lawrence. That would vary on how GMs feel about him or how coaches feel about him. Time will tell on that, but mean, we seem to think and we just mentioned that he has elevated the offense and they look like just straight crap when he was gone. So that would speak volumes for him and what he's been able to do, despite being handicapped by his GM and head coach. I would think there are at least over you know, a handful of coaches and GMs that would like to work with Trevor Lawrence and think he has the skill set that's needed.
Speaker 2:And then also, too, one more premium position, which we kind of don't know what we have because he's always been injured, but could be something special. Tyson Campbell at cornerback, like how many positions or how many opportunities? Like how many positions or how many opportunities, job opportunities you've seen, that have been available with that much talent at the premium positions. Now, everything else you got to fix probably Right, but the premium positions is what gets you through the storm. That's what you build around, essentially, and you fill in the rest around the premium position.
Speaker 1:So from that perspective, I gotta go with us yeah, you know, if you want to put jacksonville at number one over chicago like I'm certainly not going to argue with you. I think, in terms of a roster, if aaron rogers is gone, I would also consider the jets job, because I think they do also. They also have a lot of really good guys at premium positions. You're talking about Quincy and Quinnen Williams, right? You still have Garrett Wilson, you still have Brees Hall, you still have players that are on the up and up. Sauce Gardner she didn't even mention him. If Aaron Rodgers is gone, I think that could be a very appealing destination for the right person. You, you know, obviously, the New York media, that market. It takes a special, special guy, but I think you could probably throw the Jets up there. But yeah, I mean all those points. I think you're spot on. So why wouldn't a Ben Johnson want to come down here? Why would he want to go to an organization like Chicago where things are just an absolute mess, you know? So come down here, have the quarterback and an incoming number one overall pick. Possibly that could be Travis freaking Hunter. Can you imagine what Ben Johnson or the right offensive minded coach could do with Travis Hunter? Now you've come out and said that you'd probably put him at DB. But either way, you know, mike Rabel with Travis Hunter, right? Aaron Glenn, aaron Glenn with Travis Hunter, come on. So yeah, I'm not going to argue with you too much there. If you believe, or if other people believe, that Jacksonville would be on the top of people's lists for that. But to kind of, we'll wrap up on this discussion, jacksonville would be on the top of people's lists for that. But to kind of we'll wrap up on this discussion as we get to the end of this episode, because we discussed it before we got started.
Speaker 1:When do you think this is going to happen? When things started to go south, we've circled the Lions game 11-17,. This upcoming Sunday they'll have the bye and then they'll play Houston here at home on December 1st. So you have that two-week span. Is this it we expect?
Speaker 1:Well, I'm maybe not speaking for you, but I expect them to go to Detroit, where they have historically played very poorly, and the Lions just overcame a five-interception game by Jared Goff against Houston and looked damn good doing it. I think they're the most complete team in football. I don't know if you feel the same way, but the Jaguars are going to go up to Detroit, get absolutely blown out of the water and then we wait and see. So when do we think this is going to happen, jay? Is it going to happen the same day? Is he going to have that conversation with Doug right after the game? Are they going to wait till Monday? How do we feel like this is going to play out? Because the eyes of the fan base will certainly be refreshing Twitter, waiting for some news if, and most likely when, they do lose to Detroit this upcoming Sunday.
Speaker 2:Well, you, kind of mentioned something I didn't even really think about until you said it. Most likely, when they do lose to Detroit this upcoming Sunday Well, you kind of mentioned something I didn't even really think about until you said it they have to travel to Detroit, right, so that might delay it. If they're going to fire him, that might delay it. They might wait till they get home and do it on Monday Because you don't want another Gus Bradley situation, right, say what you want about Gus the coach, and you know how successful he was and how successful he's been at Indianapolis as well. But I think we all felt like we felt about it.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, and maybe it's more to the story than we think. You know. Who's to say Gus didn't say like I want out before they got in the air. You know so, but I mean just the whole, like looking at it from the outside, in the way it was presented to us, is that he was fired before they got on a plane. Right, and it didn't feel right. And if that's what if again, keyword, if that's what happened, you can't help but feel for Gus, because he's a nice guy, by the way. Man, I took a picture with Gus at summer, like a training camp one time, or whatever.
Speaker 2:The case may be Cool as all get out, man, but yeah, I digress from my point. But yeah, with them having to travel back home, maybe that might delay it a little bit. If they're going to do it after the Lions game, and they might wait till Monday, but I think they do they should do it after the Lions game and they might wait till Monday, but I think they do. They should do it as soon as possible, though, so you can start getting the um, the next year interim head coach, ready, and I mean I would say move on from Trent Baalke too, like I mean it's nothing that important that needs to be done by a GM at this point of the year. I know we might have the first overall pick and all of that, but those discussions of what to do with that, if you're going to trade it away or have discussions, you can have those after the season, right? That would be the most appropriate time because everybody would know their status on the draft order, right?
Speaker 2:So I mean, I really think you could fire Trent Baalke as well. I don't know that they would, but I you could fire Trent Baalke as well. I don't know if that they would, but, um, I think that's more. So the question is like do they fire Trent as well? Because I would and you can let Ethan Waugh be your interim. Now look what concerns me that Shotgun may fall in love with Ethan Waugh, make him a permanent GM. But you know, I again I can make the case that you could fire Trent Baalke too. And, you know, make Ethan Waugh the interim GM, while you can make Mike McCoy your interim head coach, maybe, if that's the route you want to go, or maybe somebody else on the staff. But I think the question might be more so, not, doug, but should they fire Trent after the Lions game.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, just make it a twofer, right. I mean they're like I said, they're meant for each other anyway they should. You know they didn't come in together but they should go out together, right, like that would be an all-time day on Jaguar Twitter. If they both get canned, that would be something else. And, you know, take Press Taylor with you, that would be something else. And, you know, take Press Taylor with you, make sure that he is also not left as part of the. You know the remnants of whatever happens after this upcoming game.
Speaker 1:You know, I think it would be a really real disasters if they won somehow. I mean, listen, they've been in these really close games with top tier NFC teams. Green Bay, Philly, I mean the Vikings, I think, are fool's gold. I'm not because of Sam Darnold, but I mean they've been in some of these games here lately with teams that are clearly better than them. So that would definitely be a disaster. But yeah, I mean, why not? Like you said, why not get rid of both? I really don't think it really helps anybody to keep Doug around with just the discontent he seems to have in the room now. He just doesn't seem like he wants to be here. He has his attitude. He doesn't want to answer any questions. He thinks he's better than everybody else. So why prolong it anymore, especially if they get blown out by Detroit? Go ahead, jay. Yeah, I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 2:He seems like he doesn't want to be there. I prolong it anymore, especially if they get blown out by Detroit. Go ahead, jay. Yeah, I wouldn't say that. He seems like he doesn't want to be there. He seems like he doesn't want to man up and answer the questions that need to be answered after the game. Sure, sure, yeah, yeah, as we see the next Monday that he comes back after the Sunday. After they got their behinds handed to him, he's a little bit more chipper on Monday than he was on Sunday. So I just think it's just the, just the stench of the game that's wearing on him and, uh, you know, just not being able to find the answers to make those close games wins and you know, it just kind of shows in the in the press conference.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean, you mentioned something that's interesting with the the lions game. I don't, you know, I don't think anybody expects us to beat the lions, but I think one thing that that you said that is interesting. It could be close, and the reason I say that is because, like, the Jaguars got a little and the lions have a little animosity for each other. You remember what was it last year when we went out there for training camp Like it was a little chippy man. It was a little chippy and like it wasn't getting crazy to the point where people were throwing uppercuts or anything crazy like that, but it was a few you know scrums that had to be broken up. So I don't think the Jaguars too much care for the Lions, to be honest with you, and we kind of saw it in that I think it was the episode of the hunt or it might have been sounds of the game when we played them that preseason and you know you could just kind of tell on the energy on the sideline that the Jaguars was kind of they were kind of tired of the Lions in that preseason game.
Speaker 2:I think we might have won that preseason game but yeah, they were kind of tired of them. Like you could just feel it from the energy the coaches were giving on the sideline Like and what they were saying about. I think it was the defensive line coach at the time. I forgot his name but you know he's yelling get him off the field in terms of get the Lions offense off of the field, because I think we sacked somebody at that time.
Speaker 2:Again, it's preseason but that don't mean you can't be energetic on the sidelines. But yeah, I think like if the Jaguars come out there with a chip on their shoulder and just remember how much they didn't like the Lions last year and how things went in training camp, they might come out there and put up a little bit more fight than we're expecting, which would be interesting. I guess that will further make the point for a next coach to kind of be enamored with them. And now that I'm thinking about it, what time to look good against a team than possibly in front of your future head coach and ben johnson? So maybe we should root for the jaguars to look pretty decent. I don't know, ph, what you think of that.
Speaker 1:There you go, the roles are reversed. It's actually a interview for the Jaguars, for Ben Johnson, as opposed to vice versa. Maybe Ben Johnson will see something out of well, we expect, obviously, it to be Mac Jones, unfortunately, but you know, seeing something in the team that he's like, you know what? I can, I can turn this team around. There's enough here, and he'll talk about that in his opening press conference after getting hired, talking about how that game was the game where he decided Jacksonville is the place for me, or Aaron Glenn. You know we both, both those guys run our list.
Speaker 1:Listen to that episode from a few months back, a few weeks ago. Maybe either one of those guys sees what happens this Sunday and thinks to themselves you know what? This is a team, this is a franchise. I can help turn around, as long as you know, I'm not paired with Trent Balky. So, yeah, who knows? Yeah, but they have been playing well.
Speaker 1:I do think this is one of those teams. When you talk about the upper echelon of the NFL, you know the Lions are definitely them, just like I think Buffalo was. But yeah, I think it could probably get pretty ugly, but just because of how we played against Detroit in Detroit. But, yeah, they've been competitive in these games, which is very frustrating, but, yeah, who knows how it could go down. But, jay, anything else you want to mention here as we wrap up this episode? We're approaching an hour and you know we were kind of just in a in an idling stance here. Right, we're out on the runway, we're waiting for things to happen. We're waiting to hear from ground control to give us liftoff in terms of whatever the next portion of the Jacksonville Jaguars is going to be, the next era. Right, we hope that doesn't involve Trent Baalke. We're pretty sure it's not going to involve Doug Peterson. We do know who is going to be here. We just need to know who's going to lead them, right?
Speaker 2:So anything else you want to mention before we wrap up this week's episode? Nah, man, again, as you said, man, kind of interesting episode, none the least man. Kind of interesting episode, none the least man. And it's always as painful as it is to watch the Jaguars. I don't take for granted jumping in the booth with my longtime friend to talk some football, and it helps also just kind of, I guess, get over the loss as well, the fact that you get to do it with your friends. So, yeah, man, hopefully, man, we'll get that news that we want.
Speaker 2:As you said, we don't necessarily root for people to lose their jobs, but we live in a world where, when you're bad at your job, you know you got to. I mean, we live in a society where you have to find somebody better to do that job. I mean, nobody will have sympathy for us in our everyday jobs if we got fired Right and they would move on with life right. So, that being said, man, as always, you, always, you guys know where to find us at sportsgrind, underscore dunn, at fieldofilipino, at tdjadwarspod and wwwtouchdownjadwarscom, if you want to check out the website. Also, shout outs to our sponsor SeatGeek. You can use our promotion code, touchdown Jaguars to get yourself $20 off of your first order with them. Seatgeek is your go-to place for your ticketing needs, whether that's in the sports world, or whether that's in the music world in terms of concerts. Whatever the case may be, whatever kind of event you're looking for, they got you covered Again. Promotion code is Touchdown Jaguars.
Speaker 1:Yep, all of that is in the Linktree link in the show notes of each and every episode, so make sure you guys check out all of that. So, folks, once again, that is my co-host, james Johnson. I am Phil Smith, and do not forget to tune in to Touchdown Jaguars for each and every Jaguar Touchdown, and we'll see you next week.