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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 104: Texans/Jaguars Week 13 Analysis - Dirty Play Overshadows a Competitive Game
What happens when the intense dynamics of the NFL collide with the demands of player safety? We tackle the complexities surrounding the Jacksonville Jaguars' recent hard-fought game against the Houston Texans, a match that ended in a tense 23-20 loss. Despite a slow start, the clash heated up dramatically, culminating in a controversial hit that has everyone talking. Is C.J. Stroud's performance this season truly falling short, or is there more beneath the surface? And what does this mean for the Jaguars as division rivals like the Colts begin to show signs of resurgence?
As the Jaguars lick their wounds, we shift focus to the Texans' playoff prospects in an AFC South filled with teams on the mend. Despite facing skepticism, the Texans might find a path to the playoffs through a division with rivals in various stages of rebuilding. But how will they fare against powerhouses like the Chiefs and Bills, or even a struggling Ravens team? We explore the ramifications of Azeez Al-Shaair's
suspension for his hit on Trevor Lawrence, examining the NFL's response and what it signals for the future of player safety and league rules.
From the sidelines to the locker room, we unpack the heated reactions and defense strategies from both teams in the aftermath of a contentious play. With insights from former players and coaches, we question the evolving nature of quarterback protection and the balance between safety and the sport's inherent aggression. How do figures like Chris Canty and Rex Ryan interpret these incidents, and what do their perspectives say about the current state of the game? Join us as we advocate for Trevor Lawrence's long-term health and discuss what the Jaguars can do to adapt to the changing landscape of the NFL.
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James Johnson and Phil Smith bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Hey everyone, Phil here, Just a quick editor's note that I wanted to add, just so you guys know. This episode was recorded a little bit earlier in the day, on Wednesday, December 4th, before the news was announced that Trevor was going to be out for the remainder of the season. So you'll hear us mention hey, Trev, go ahead and shut it down for the rest of the year. This is before we knew that decision was going to be made, so just want to let you guys know. Enjoy the episode. Oh my God, Jaguars Play action Upstairs wide open. Tommy Bohannon Touchdown Jacksonville. Looking for Jimmy in the end zone Touchdown Jaguars. Touchdown Jaguars. Touchdown Jaguars. Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. Here are your hosts, James Johnson and Phil Smith.
Speaker 1:Hey everyone, welcome back to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your co-host, Phil Smith, and joining us, as always, is your other co-host, James Johnson and Jay. We are here recording on the 4th of December, my birthday actually. So shout out to those of you that have reached out and wished me a happy birthday. We are.
Speaker 1:Even though it is my birthday, Jay, we are still here working because we have a lot to discuss when it comes to the Jaguars. We'll see if this is a brief episode, but I'm sure we have a ton to say about what went down over the weekend, and not so much about the final score, in which the Jaguars did unfortunately lose again, but, Jay, everything that has come out since then and everything surrounding the incident that happened between the Jaguars and the Texans here in Duval County. So, regardless, Jay, excited to be back here with you as we are just kind of counting down the days until the season has ended. But unfortunately we were thrown a very violent wrinkle in this waiting process here over the weekend. So looking forward to discussing all of this with you, even though it was a very, very ugly scene down at Everbank Field.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man. Well, first and foremost, happy birthday, as I have already said, man, and yeah, you know, holidays have never kind of stopped us from recording man. So I appreciate you being here on your big day, man, and hope you enjoy it. And here's to many, many more.
Speaker 2:And, as you said, yeah, you're right, this episode was thrown an ugly wrinkle when considering the situation that went down on the field, which we'll talk about in depth. Not just that, but like the aftermath of it too, and you know what has transpired in press conferences after and what have you. Of course, you know, as always, you like to get the win against the Texas, especially considering what happened in the game. Right, that would have been a nice win to have, and me and you, you know, we kind of talked about that last week where we wouldn't be surprised if we could win that game. And the game was winnable and it was, you know, close. It didn't really get too out of hand, even when the injury took place.
Speaker 2:But yeah, man, man, nonetheless, it made for a interesting episode when you take into consideration what transpired on the field. Can't wait to talk about it, but of course, before we do that, we always got to plug some stuff, right? Of course, you can follow me at sportsgrind, underscore down on twitter, ph Phil at Phil the Filipino on Twitter, and also you can follow our website, which is touchdownjadwarscom, the official Twitter handle for the podcast TDJadwarsPod, and I think I covered everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everything you need will be in the Linktree link of this and every single episode, so make sure you check that out, along with that promo code, touchdown Jaguars you can use over on SeatGeek and save yourself $20 on your first purchase with them. So yeah, jay, let's go ahead and jump into it here, as we are anxious to discuss the events of this past Sunday. As far as the seemingly less important things, the Jaguars did lose to the Houston Texans 23-20. There was a comeback effort between the third and the fourth quarter. It was a pretty quiet game in terms of the, I would say, probably the first three quarters. To be honest with you, six to three at halftime.
Speaker 1:The Houston Texans continue to kind of be this polarizing team I believe I mean now. Granted, I've tried to stay away from more overarching statements when it comes to teams that I just obviously am not keeping up with in my older age, as we have done this longer and longer. So all I can really do, jay, is look at the eye test in terms of the Houston Texans and say they haven't really been that impressive this year, where, on the opposite side of things, we're starting to see we talked about this last week the Indianapolis Colts starting to put some things together. Anthony Richardson is looking good. He was the reason they won that game over the weekend and you know, obviously, with their season on the line, they made a big choice in terms of coaching and that worked out for them.
Speaker 1:But nonetheless, houston comes in and they've had this kind of strange season. Cj Shroud seems to have regressed a little bit. Some people are talking about having this conversation about the Houston Texans, right, and are they really as good as we expected them to be? Are they underperforming? Sophomore slump, all of that. So before we get to the most obvious stuff, jay, let's talk about the football on the field. I once again, as has been the story I feel like this entire season was traveling on the day of the game, so I did not get to see it. So interested to see, in terms of the football side of things, what your takeaways were from the game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll keep it brief because I only saw three-fourths of it and I'm still watching the film as we speak, or I'll continue to watch the film after this episode. But yeah, I've seen about three-four quarters of it and my biggest takeaway from it was it was relatively quiet. The first two quarters they were really just exchanging field goals. You know, um, and you know, I would say, cj stroud, as you mentioned, actually there were some plays he maybe left on the field right where he could have maybe gotten rid of the ball or not taking a sack here and there. And you know there was some like covered sack things and things of that nature where you look at it and, like you know, you say like dang c CJ, you didn't have to take that sack.
Speaker 2:I guess for the sake of playing the Jacksonville Jaguars, we won't complain about stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Right, we'll take any help we can get from a quarterback. But after that, I think what happened in that second half at least, again, I only seen like a majority of the third quarter, not the fourth quarter, but that's kind of when Joe Mixon took over, looks like the Jaguars really didn't have any answers for him in the run game and you know he made plays in the passing game too. So I think, like you know, if I had to guess that continued in the fourth quarter, I'll, you know, talk about that more on Twitter when I see the fourth quarter, uh. But I think that's what it is, man. After that half the first half, joe Mixon took over and kind of propelled this team to where they needed to be and I'm talking about the Texans here, not us uh to get the victory over the Jacksonville Jaguars yeah, I had been keeping up with the timeline a little bit throughout the day and seeing that Trevor had also kind of left some stuff out there on the field obviously had the interception.
Speaker 1:There was certainly the narrative that, without some overthrows and misses, brian Thomas has himself yet another big day and he still ended up having a really solid day four catches, 76 yards and a touchdown. Parker Washington also had a solid day himself six catches, 103 yards. But yeah, ultimately they fell short in their comeback effort. And yeah, you know, I'm very interested to see if Houston, you know, finds themselves in the same position that we were in last year, where you know it's a win and get in. And actually, what is there? Do they play Indy on the final day of the year? No, they play Tennessee, although I think we close with Indianapolis, if I remember correctly. I don't have the schedule up here in front of me, but it will be interesting because Houston will be in that position where they need to beat Tennessee and Indianapolis will be playing us at home. So we'll see how it goes.
Speaker 1:But yeah, jay, I've just been not overly impressed with the Houston Texans and obviously we're going to come off as homers, but just the way that they've performed and, you know, with CJ Shroud coming into the season obviously with a ton of hype, and deservedly so. He had an outstanding rookie season and he's going to be kind of the standard that quarterbacks are going to be held to going forward as far as rookies. I mean look at Caleb Williams, that happened to him this year. But yeah, jay, just been a little underwhelmed with them, although I will say Joe Mixon has been having himself a solid game and I had a feeling that was going to be a big pickup for them heading into this season.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, to add on to what you were saying, phil, the last divisional game in the AFC South for the Houston Texans is the Titans. That's week 18. And that game, I believe, has yet to be determined in terms of the time not the score but the time. So that's what they have left in terms of the remainder of the season. And yeah, to add on what you said about Trevor, that was another thing that I forgot to mention. Yeah, he, you know that first, I think, like drive, he looked pretty good and then after that he kind of fell off. He was, you know, missed time in some throws overthrows just wide of the receiver, you know, just to the left or to the right of the receiver, depending on what kind of routes they were running. Missed BTJ on a big one that he underthrew and the safety was able, or the cornerback was able, to undercut it because it hung in the air a little too long. So you know he was showing the effects of, you know, probably not practicing as much as he could have. I know he practiced that week of, but you know he was dealing with the issue the week before, the injury issue the week before. So that probably maybe played into it. Not making any excuses for him, but I'm kind of not shocked that he looked the way that he did when considering he was coming off an injury and maybe didn't practice as much as he should have. But I guess the more interesting thing heading forward is do they shut him down? I think they should. I think they should have shut him down period before the Texans game and he shouldn't have played in the Texans game. But that's neither here or neither there.
Speaker 2:Going back to the Texans, yeah, I agree with you. I think if they're in any other divisions that it will be a struggle for them. But luckily they're in a division where, you know, trent Baalke constructed a team and Doug Peterson doesn't know how to coach and has Press Taylor as his offensive coordinator. And the Texans or, excuse me, the Titans are kind of young and upcoming. You know they're trying to find their way. They have a young quarterback and you know the Colts are I don't know what.
Speaker 2:What's the issue with the Colts? That's? That's a good question. In terms of what's their issue. I guess it kind of falls with falls along the lines of the Titans. They have a young quarterback who you know he only played in a limited amount of games in terms of before he came to the NFL. We knew he would be a project, so that's probably what's stalling them when you look at it. So yeah, man, I think we vastly overrated the Texans heading into this season. I think they still win the division nonetheless, but I think when they get into the playoffs there'll be a team that you know their issues will show up relatively fast in the postseason.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with you. When you're looking at the other teams that are going to be in contention that they may run into when it comes to the AFC specifically, I mean I think you're looking at them being maybe even the weakest and most flawed team. I mean the Broncos are playing very well, the Chargers, and then you have the Ravens. We'll see how the Ravens finish. Like there is a little bit of concern there on my end.
Speaker 1:I don't know how you feel about Baltimore J and just kind of how they're, um, they're kind of sputtering here towards the end of the season, which is a real bummer. I mean, I, you and I are big fans of Lamar Jackson, but when you look at all the other teams that are that they could run into in the AFC obviously Kansas City and Buffalo, those are outliers. Pittsburgh, I think, is definitely better than them, and then also, like I said, those other three playoff teams the chargers, ravens and broncos, I think are better than them. Um, and then we'll see. Like you know, obviously the colts are catching them. So just to kind of pivot here.
Speaker 2:When it comes to the playoff picture in general, jay, I mean, do you see houston beating any of those teams, la baltimore or denver right now they may can beat the Ravens and, as you said, the Ravens are kind of sputtering, but the Ravens sputtered into the season, you know, like I think they started with two or three losses in the season and they kind of picked it up a little bit after that and now they're back to where they were. So, you know, maybe the Ravens they can be in the Ravens defenses and all that great. So if they end up in a matchup with them, that could favor the Texans. But these other teams that you mentioned, I think they have a great chance to beat the Texas Chargers. What they're doing with JK Dobbins, I think they'll be able to run the ball pretty well, which you need to do in the postseason anyway. On um, on the Texans and you know Ladd McConkie is adding some things to the passing game there too as well.
Speaker 2:Go dogs right. I remember a lot of people were high on him and what he would offer for NFL offense and it's showing early and often. So so yeah, no, I agree, man, like I think of those teams, though I think the Ravens, just when you look at where they are defensively and just kind of how they been a rollercoaster this off season. That's the one team that you know. If you maybe probably put some money on it, you know I would maybe go with the Texans in that game. I guess we'll see how things go at the end of the regular season we can kind of gauge that a little better and who has momentum going into the postseason. But the Ravens are the one team that I would say if you're a Houston Texas fan you might want to end up in a matchup with them yeah, of course, if they win the division, they will host a playoff game.
Speaker 1:So well, they would get the highest seed, though, if you kind of look at it right now, because obviously Kansas City, buffalo, pittsburgh, and then, if things, you know, stay the way they are, they would get the top seed in terms of the wildcard, which right now I believe would be the Chargers. So, yeah, that might not be the most favorable matchup, but who knows? I mean, there's a lot of football left. We were talking about four more games and a lot can happen in that four game span. So we will see. But, jay, all that to say as we get into the primary topic of this episode is just the absolutely vicious hit by Aziz Alshayer of the Houston Texans to Trevor Lawrence. I remember again, I was in Orlando and just getting those text messages from the group chat and also getting the notifications on the social media. It's just an absolutely disgusting display of quote-unquote football by Alshayer and there's been a lot of fallout coming out of this hit and coming out of what happened over the weekend. First, let's start with what we know now as of December 4th, because he has been suspended for three games for his illegal hit on Trevor Lawrence. The league cited quote repeated violations of rules intended to protect the health and safety of players and promote sportsmanship. Nfl Vice President of Football Operations, john Runyon, issued Shire's suspension and actually wrote him the following letter, which the NFL did publish During your game against the Jacksonville Jaguars on December 1st, with four minutes and 20 seconds remaining in the second quarter, you were involved in a play that the league considers unacceptable and a serious violation of the playing rules.
Speaker 1:Video shows you striking the head and neck area of Jaguars quarterback Trevor Lawrence after he clearly goes down in a feet-first slide. You led with your forearm and helmet and delivered a forceful blow to the head and neck area of your opponent when you had time and space to avoid such contact. After the illegal hit, you proceeded to engage in a brawl, which you escalated when you pulled an opponent down to the ground by his face mask. After the referee announced that you were disqualified for the hit and your unsportsmanlike acts, you removed your helmet and reengaged with your opponent while walking down and across the field, which started another physical confrontation near the end zone. Your lack of sportsmanship and respect for the game of football and all those who play, coach and enjoy watching. It is troubling and does not reflect the core values of the NFL. Your continued disregard for NFL playing rules puts the health and safety of both you and your opponents in jeopardy and will not be tolerated.
Speaker 1:And that's the thing with Alshair right, that came out a lot after he made a statement online, but also people, specifically Houston Texans fans, defending him and saying you know, this isn't the type of player he is. D'amico Ryan's coming out and protecting him and defending him. But no, this is who Alshayer is as far as a player. And listen, he was with D'Amico Ryan's in San Francisco, so I'm sure there is a sense of loyalty there, and it's also your guy, san Francisco. So I'm sure there is a sense of loyalty there, and it's also your guy, so you want to protect him and probably in that moment, probably trying to soften the blow, knowing the suspension was coming down the pipeline.
Speaker 1:But all this is BS man. I didn't want to hear anything that he had to say in terms of an apology, the whole thing with me. That really escalates this and I think for a lot of people, jay is he's leading with the forearm right and there's a whole nother discussion I want to have with you as a former football player, when it comes to the slide, when it comes to protecting the quarterback, when it comes to all of these things because all of this stuff can be people are trying to point out that, you know, maybe we need to teach quarterbacks a different way. We'll discuss all that here in a second. But I want to talk about your initial reaction to this, your reaction to the suspension, and then we'll talk about some of the fallout here in just a moment, because there has been a lot, and there's also been a lot of nonsense coming from a few different parties.
Speaker 2:Right, right. And when you say former football player, let's be clear to the people, because people are gonna be like oh, jay played on the college level, he's talking about high school football, still more than I played, though.
Speaker 1:Still more football than I ever played. So outside of flag.
Speaker 2:Right, right, but yeah, I think, like in a nutshell and I watched it played about eight times because you know you want to be selective of what you're saying and careful about what you say and the one thing that I kept coming back to with the hit right field is that Al Shaheer is to me, he seems to be a player that's over-aggressive, right, because I go back to this. What I kept going back to is, for years now, the NFL has been coaching players and this shouldn't necessarily be the case. Right, quarterbacks shouldn't get hit any softer than any other player. But that's where we are in today's NFL. The NFL, the owners, the powers that be, want you to hit the quarterback softer than other players and they want you to hit the quarterback with more caution than other players. So you know, that's where we are right now, and they've been training players for years on the defensive side of how to approach these hits when it comes to hitting a quarterback bringing a quarterback down, not landing on them, you know, not hitting them in the head, not hitting them outside of the from the neck to the body range, you know, hitting them outside of that range. All of these things have been in place for years. So Al Shaheer has been getting coaching and training on how to hit quarterbacks and how to approach a quarterback for years, for years.
Speaker 2:And for him to go into that hit which I paused it, and I paused it before he actually began to take an action against Trevor Lawrence, and I mean to me each time I paused it, it looks like it's at least four to five yards between him and Trevor when Trevor started to slide, with that amount of space between you and the quarterback. What I keep coming back to is I don't understand how, with that amount of space between the two, it led to Al Shayer diving at him with a forearm. I could see maybe it ending with Trevor maybe getting hurt, but taking a forearm to the head full speed with the defender diving at you. I'm confused as to how that was what the reaction was for Al Shayer. And another thing, too, is I watch reactions a lot in football Me and you talk about this a lot, right, phil? But you can tell a lot by how people react after a play.
Speaker 2:That being said, when he hit Trevor also, what kind of made me skeptical on his intent was a lot of times what you'll see with these hits, with defenders when they hit the quarterback they'll try and lay off right. It'll be some kind of reaction that showed that they weren't trying to make it as forceful as it could be, right. You'll see sometimes a defender turn his back so they're not going into the quarterback, or the person with the ball full speed. Sometimes you'll see I even seen Calais Campbell one time coddle a quarterback and keep like basically keeping him from falling to the ground head first. You know like which. You know I was like at the time I was like wow, I never thought I'd see the day where a defensive end holds a quarterback up from hitting the ground. But you know that was his way of making it not look as forceful, right. So you'll see these things, these actions during the hit or after the hit or a little bit before the hit that would indicate like the defenders not trying to hit the quarterback with full force Did not see that with this hit I saw somebody leading with their forearm diving full speed.
Speaker 2:I didn't see him trying to break his fall. You know, a lot of times you see that right field when you're tackling a quarterback. You'll see defenders trying to break the fall or they'll do the little gator roll motion so they don't land completely on the quarterback. I didn't see any of these actions that show he was trying to reduce the force. That he was coming at Trevor Lawrence is what I'm trying to say. That too was a red flag to me.
Speaker 2:And when you add in his reaction afterwards, the over-aggression afterwards which I mean, I guess you know we all can't really speak on that situation until we're in it, you know, maybe we'd react the same as well if a whole football team was trying to come at us or whatever the case may be. But the over-aggression and him going back for more, as they mentioned in the statement, as John Runyon mentioned in the statement, trying to go back for more that was the incident with Brandon Scherf. It didn't lead to anything, but that's probably what they were talking about there. For him to go back for more just shows me and puts me back at my initial point that I said at the beginning of this statement. That I said at the beginning of this statement.
Speaker 2:We're looking at a player that's overaggressive and that's not receptive and not taking in, is not taking in the coaching in terms of how you hit and approach a quarterback, because you can't tell me that the Texans teach that. I know D'Amico Ryans has said what he said and their GM said what he said, but you can't tell me that the Texans teach that, because who teaches something that would cost the team penalty yardage? Essentially, we're just looking at a player who hasn't been receptive of the new rules and how to hit a quarterback and the result was trevor lawrence getting severely injured, and that's where I am with it right, and that's kind of a good segue here is because you mentioned, you know, demico ryan.
Speaker 1:I didn't see the full Nick Cesario quote, but I did see that kind of making rounds. But let's talk about that first because you know, obviously, d'amico Ryan's former player a very physical player, mind you, a guy that we are obviously very familiar with being Jaguar fans and just fans of football and the AFC South in general, for him to call out the Jaguars and tell them, you know, tell the media that they then were responsible for escalating that event and making it worse and kind of drawing it out. Obviously I'm paraphrasing here. I don't have the exact quote in front of him, but I do know that he did blame Jacksonville for the events escalating further than they already were about to escalate. That's BS, right? You're not telling me.
Speaker 1:Actually, I've listened to quite a bit of former players talk about this over the last couple of days, specifically Chris Canty and Harry Douglas over on ESPN. I listen to the Chris Canty's radio show in the morning, typically every day that I take my daughter to school, so I listen to him a lot Also. That's a pretty pro Jaguar show If anyone's looking for a kind of like a mainstream media show. I just want to shout out on Sportsmanlike, on ESPN. It's not the best, but it's OK. But anyway, backtracking, they talked about D'Amico Ryan's comments. I believe it was yesterday. They talked about D'Amico Ryan's comments, I believe it was yesterday, and both took issue with it, because both of them stated that if this ever happens to not even just your quarterback, but even another one of your players, another one of your teammates, that is the appropriate reaction. And if it is not your reaction, then you could possibly get thrown off a team. If you're not going to go to bat for your brothers out here and we understand that this is a violent game, right, they signed up for this. It is a violent sport. But if something like that happens, that is not within the brotherhood. The unwritten rulebook of football. That is the appropriate reaction.
Speaker 1:Shout out to Jerrion Jones. Shout out to Brandon the appropriate reaction. Shout out to Jerry and Jones. Shout out to Brandon Scherf. Shout out to, obviously, evan Ingram, who was there first. Shout out to Brian Thomas Jr, who was heated. Shout out to everybody on the roster for reacting the way that they did. They reacted appropriately and, honestly, I'm surprised more punches weren't thrown. Maybe they were and Jerry and Jones was just the only one that got caught, but they reacted properly.
Speaker 1:And I guarantee you, if, d'amico Ryans you pointed this out before we started, jay if this was CJ Stroud that this happened to, then yeah, if that's how Houston then reacted, I'd be like, yeah, that's how they're supposed to react. They're supposed to, they are supposed to protect their guy, they're supposed to look out for him. So for D'Amico Ryan's a former player, a former linebacker, mind you to come out and say that is incredibly frustrating. And I have a couple more questions for you here on the others, uh, a little bit later. In terms of what, the future of protecting the quarterback, because Rex Ryan also made some comments that kind of like frustrated me. I'll ask you about that here in just a moment. But yeah, jay, just expand a little bit more on that. Again, d'amico Ryan's if the roles were reversed, he'd be up in arms about what happened to his quarterback.
Speaker 2:So I don't like him calling us out for making things worse oh yeah, he, he absolutely would if the roles were reversed, and if that was cj stroud, it'll be a more of a, it would be more, uh, one of those issues brought more to the light too, because stroud is a more popular quarterback than trevor lawrence. But that's neither here neither there. The question is you know about demico ryan's comment and, yeah, you're right, it's absolutely bs man, I have seen coaches and you know I'm not watching. You know me, phil, I watched a ton of football documentaries and I watched a ton of, you know, just football mic'd up moments and anything you can find on NFL network or YouTube. Man, and just, I would say just about, not even just about all coaches that witnessed something like that would react the same way if it was their quarterback or one of their other players, whether it was an offensive player, defensive player getting hit on the sideline later than they should have.
Speaker 2:I can recall one time, as a matter of fact, just to kind of reflect on the reactions that coaches have when that happens to one of their players. I was watching the Jaguars mic'd up moment and this was back in the Jack Del Rio days. I forgot what quarterback it was. It might have been David Garrard. He got hit on the sideline right near Jack Del Rio. Jack Del Rio ran to the referee screaming at him hey, that's my quarterback, that's my quarterback.
Speaker 2:So coaches not only just players that we saw out there shout outs to all of the players that reacted the way that they reacted, the ones that you mentioned Brenton Strange was one of them too. But not only do players react that way, coaches are wired to react that way, which is kind of shocking why Doug Peterson didn't react to it as well. We'll come back to that later down the road as well, but I can remember Jack Del Rio straight up running to the referee screaming at him. That's my quarterback.
Speaker 2:And for us to hear D'Amico Ryan say something that just kind of just embodies the exact opposite, it's just BS. You're just trying to defend a guy that was in the wrong, and I understand it, I get it. You're just defending your player. But the word choice there and what you said could have been a little bit better, because we all know if the roles were reversed that was CJ's drought you would take heat to it, all of your coaching staff would, all of the players would, and it would be the same thing the Jacksonville Jaguars did, if not worse. So that's how I feel on that.
Speaker 1:Right. And then to transition to this Rex Ryan thing, because they were talking about this on Get Up, which is their morning show on television over on ESPN, and Rex Ryan was making the point that he's kind of fed up, essentially, with these quarterbacks sliding and exposing themselves to risk and exposing themselves to injury, to risk and exposing themselves to injury, and he was trying to make the point of, instead of, you know, the quarterback slide and taking advantage of these rules, that they need to start diving head first, like at the defender's legs or something along those lines. And this was another thing that Chris Canty and again, harry Douglas shout out to them were both like no, this is also not a great idea. You're then exposing yourself to getting taking a knee to the head or even hurting the defensive player. You know the point of this obviously is we don't want to see anybody get hurt. You know, obviously, in the year where we've seen Tua go through what he has gone seeing your quarterback that you cover go into that fencing position and anybody go into that fencing position, regardless of who you're rooting for, it's terrifying, right jay, it's a scary sight.
Speaker 1:So I wanted to get your thoughts on that, not only what rex ryan had to say. I don't know if you saw the full clip, I actually meant to send it to you guys in the group chat. I forgot to do so. But also, is there a better way to do this? Or is it just continuing to teach defensive players hey, you know, you mentioned all the ways that they have that defensive players avoid that penalty or attempt to avoid that penalty. I even saw, I think in one of the sacks that trayvon walker get like as soon as he wrapped up cj stroud. He is immediately on the ground putting his hands up because he doesn't want to, you know, get any penalty for falling on the quarterback or anything like that. So I wanted to to get your thoughts on the Rex Ryan thing and see if you had heard him talk about that, because again, just does not seem like a feasible fix to what's happening here.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll start by saying this man, if it was up to Rex Ryan let's say Rex Ryan was a commissioner or a key figure in the NFL If it was up to him, it'll be and I'm not making a joke about this, I'm dead serious when I say this It'll be probably a CTE-driven lead.
Speaker 1:At least the open season on quarterbacks anyway, right, yeah, we shouldn't, exactly.
Speaker 2:Because he's one of those coaches from the old school mold right, he's from the Brian Billet tree. He's from that mold of tough, hard nose and we all seen a Rex Ryan defense and how it looked, especially back then, when they didn't protect quarterbacks, as you said, Phillips quote unquote open season on quarterbacks, and you know, that's just kind of the cloth that he's cut from it, that's just kind of like him not willing to let go of those times, right, of physical football. And football can still be physical without players taking the punishment that they took. And I think what happened somewhere down the road, man? I mean the owners realized like hey, man, our quarterbacks are getting abused a little bit too much and of course it's for the wrong reasons.
Speaker 2:When you talk about the owners, they're trying to protect their pockets, right, and their investment, and they're trying to protect the attraction for football which is the quarterbacks, and that's why the rules are the way they are now. But I digress from my point, man. But yeah, man, you can't really take what rex ryan says seriously, because he's just from that old school of football where, if it was up to him, like people will be getting straight up bill goldberg on the sideline. And then what was your?
Speaker 1:it was another part to it that you asked down that I'm blanking out on here just, do you think that there is any solution to kind of either protect the quarterback more, because I do agree that the sliding motion obviously does open up, you know, the back of the head to injury, whether it be in this instance with all Shire, where I think it was a dirty play, but also instances where it is accidental, which I do think you can find examples where that has happened. But is there some sort of solution here? I mean, obviously, like we've seen the Guardian cap more often, but that's we've only really seen guys wear that that are coming out of the, you know, out of the concussion protocol.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, well, I will say this, man. They have made significant progress on protecting quarterbacks and in most cases that we've seen, it is working to protect the quarterback. Now what that leads to is what I said earlier it's a little unfair that you're protecting quarterbacks more than you're protecting other players. But that's just where the game is now. But but for the most part, when you look at like 75% of the quarterback slides these days, or probably even more, they don't end the way that the hit on Trevor Lawrence ended. As a matter of fact, I saw plenty of slides throughout the week watching other football games. You know whether it was college or whether it was in the NFL and none of them ended poorly for the most part. For the quarterback you know nothing, nowhere near what we saw happen with Trevor Lawrence. So I think the rewiring of defensive players is actually working slowly but surely, but in 75 to 80 or maybe more, percent of the cases I believe is actually working.
Speaker 2:You know again, we'll have that discussion another day about their protecting quarterbacks better than other players. But I think that the defenders are recognizing like hey, I can't go in here full speed at the quarterback right Now. There are some plays where things can still happen in terms of an injury, especially when you're in a position like when you're trying to defend every blade of grass. Right, you know you're trying to stop somebody from getting a very crucial first down, right, and like your reaction time and all of that stuff kind of is, I guess I would say I don't want to say goes out of the window, is I guess I would say I don't want to say goes out of the window, but you're not thinking about it at a time where you're trying to, like, defend somebody from a crucial first down, or if you're the quarterback trying to get a crucial first down.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean, I think they are on to something with how they are protecting quarterbacks. I do think there are some instances where a quarterback gets hit in the pocket that they can handle a little bit better with this whole thing of that body area you have to hit the quarterback. It's times where a quarterback will move the slightest inch and you were intending to hit the body and you hit something else, right, like I think they need to look into trying to maybe do something for that and those kind of instances need to look into trying to maybe do something for that and those kind of instances. But when it comes to the sliding thing, um, I think they're on to something and I just think, like the players you know, in most cases unlike al shahir just have to be reflect, receptive to what's being coached in terms of protecting the quarterback yeah, that's good point.
Speaker 1:It's not like we don't see quarterback sliding all throughout the week, every weekend, and not even with just the NFL, but also throughout college football. So, yeah, that is a very good point, but, yeah, obviously very, very ugly scene in terms of what went down. Wishing Trevor the best, and, yeah, to go back to what you were saying at the beginning of this conversation, it doesn't matter now, but yeah, I agree, they should have shut Trevor down. They should have shut Trevor down for the season. Anyway, maybe take that decision out of his hands. Obviously, you know he wants to go out there and compete. He wants to go out there and be there with his teammates. That is very, very clear. And you, you know one thing you definitely cannot deny now and and you know we talked about in his absence in terms of what his, what him being there means as far as football production on the field. But there is one thing that you can no longer argue is that Trevor is the leader of this football team.
Speaker 1:When you look at the reaction that we got after the hit happened, those guys, those teammates, those Trev is their guy and I know there wasn't any doubt about that here on our end, but there definitely was like some chatter, you know, over the course of the season and you know from from some other people. So, yeah, anything else you want to mention in terms of this incident here? Jay, obviously we'll, you know. We wish him a speedy recovery. Hope he comes back 100% next year. But, trev, if you find yourself listening to this podcast for some reason, man, we are good with you just shutting it down for the year and focusing on 2025 and where we can get you, you know, a new coach, maybe some new offensive linemen, some new weapons, new offensive coordinators, new general manager. But, hey, enjoy the holiday with your friend, with your family. Man, you're about to be a father, like all of this. Like, take this into account and we will be okay with you shutting it down for the remainder of the year.
Speaker 2:Yes, please, trevor, shut it down, man. And yeah, spend spend all your energy on your family and then, whatever the rest of the energy you want to spend, spend that on Len Shotkin. No, you want to get Doug Peterson and Trent Baalke up out of there. Yeah, nothing. Well, I will say this Phil, I guess we can kind of talk about this, since we're talking about reactions to the hit. What do you think of like Doug Peterson and what he said about the hit and? Um, just, you know the aftermath in terms of his statements oh, yeah, that's right, thanks for bringing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I totally forgot about that. Yeah, um, also, again, can't wait to get Doug up out of here, another former player, so he knows how things go. You know a former quarterback at that. So for him to come out and, and you know, tell people that, hey, his guys need to be smarter. And, um, you know a former quarterback at that. So for him to come out and you know, tell people that, hey, his guys need to be smarter. And you know we shouldn't be escalating Again. Just nonsense that you don't, you don't want to hear in the, maybe behind closed doors they're telling their players hey, go to bat for your guys. So for him to come out there and say that, and you know, not necessarily have his players back, just adding more fuel to the fire. And another reason as to why I cannot wait for him to get up out of here.
Speaker 2:Same. You have a, you know, texans organization who's batting for their player who did the wrong thing. Meanwhile, doug can't bat for his player who did the right thing, like, who had the right reaction. So, yeah, man, that just kind of stood out to me. And, as you said, man like we can't get him up out of here quick enough. Man, like, how does that feel for the locker room? Right, that your coach won't who was a former quarterback, by the way won't bat for you, you know, defending your own quarterback, essentially the franchise quarterback for this team. But I guess that goes back to what we've said. Maybe Doug Peterson just doesn't care much for Trevor Lawrence, man, you know, and maybe that stems from the whole situation with Press Taylor. Maybe, you know, maybe Trevor's not happy with Press Taylor and, as a result, doug is taking some kind of offense to it. But you can tell something's not right with that Doug Peterson Trevor Lawrence connection. And then the last thing I want to mention too is Wigg kind of mentioned this Shout-outs to T Wigg on his podcast.
Speaker 2:He thinks that the way that Doug Peterson reacted and what he said kind of gives Trent Baalke a way to go to shotgun and be like see, look, it wasn't me, it isn't me, it's clearly the coach type of thing. What are your thoughts on that? Real quick, I'll get my thoughts on it. I don't think that's the case, because I think to some degree Trent Baalke had to do with the process of hiring Doug Peterson, so I don't think that necessarily should give him an out in terms of this situation, because part of the reason why we have Doug Peterson is because of Trent Baalke and we didn't cast the net that we wanted to for coaches during the coaching candidate search that we wanted to. We had to settle with somebody who would settle with Trent Baalke. So Trent's really the reason that Doug is here essentially, and that's where I am with that.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't put it past him because Trimbulky is a snake, right. So I understand what T-Wig is trying to say, because I think it's well within the realm of possibility for somebody who operates like Trimbulky, for somebody who you know people around the league clearly do not want to work with. I could certainly see him do that. I remember there were those reports coming from somewhere. Like these don't come from nowhere, right. They originate from somewhere where the reports were coming out saying that maybe he's getting in in shot cons ear saying, hey, I can deliver bill Belichick, right? That doesn't appear out of nowhere. For the most part of that's the one thing I've learned from watching a lot of insiders also learning from you. Um, I, I don't. I don't think that's the case either, but I could definitely see it coming out of his mouth, or him at least insinuating to shot con that that is the case, if that makes sense right, right.
Speaker 2:yeah, I just wanted to get your take. I also wanted to talk about the Walker Little thing, but we'll save that for another podcast. Well, that'll be another great topic that we can save for another podcast. So we can wrap this one up. Man, as I said, you can follow me, james at Sportsground, underscore Don on Twitter. Phil at Phil, the Filipino TouchdownJadwarscom, the website Twitter handle for touchdownjadwars at tdjadwarspod, and shout outs to SeatGeek as well. Go ahead, phil, you can take it from here in terms of anything else that we need to add to close the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that will be it. Obviously, we're, you know, emotions running high here, especially when it comes to our players and Trevor's health and, honestly, the health of anybody on this team. It doesn't matter who it is. You know, these are our guys and we want to make sure that everybody is doing well and playing as safely as possible. You know, at the end of the day, what Alshayer did was dirty, and I do think he is a dirty player and we have plenty of evidence to confirm that.
Speaker 1:And just once again emphasizing Trevor if you have found your way to the touchdown Jaguars podcast, shut it down. Enjoy the holidays, enjoy the fact that you're about to be a dad and that your life's about to change forever. And we'll see you in 2025, brother. So take care of yourself. But no, that's it for this week's episode. Jay, once again, everything will be in the show notes of this episode. Everything you need in terms of the link tree link is right there. So thank you all, so, very, very much. That is my co-host, james Johnson, and I am Phil Smith, and do not forget to tune in to Touchdown Jaguars for each and every Jaguar touchdown, and we'll see you next time. Take care, folks.