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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 106: Baalke In, Patience Out. - Shad Khan Commits to Mediocrity
Is it time for the Jaguars to shake things up at the top? On this episode of the Touchdown Jaguars podcast, we return from our break to dissect the highs and lows of a tumultuous season for the Jacksonville Jaguars. Phil Smith and James Johnson are here to break down the final game against the Indianapolis Colts, spotlighting standout rookie receiver Brian Thomas Jr. and the defense's struggle against Jonathan Taylor. The cornerback concerns with Tyson Campbell and Monteric Brown are on the table, as well as the strategic alterations needed for future divisional matchups.
Reflecting on a 4-13 season marred by narrow defeats, we ponder the alternate reality of a winning record and discuss why the team opted against a total reset. Leadership decisions come under scrutiny, with Shad Khan's choice to part ways with head coach Doug Pederson while retaining GM Trent Baalke stirring controversy and fan frustration.
The coaching carousel is spinning, and the Jaguars are in the thick of it. We examine the challenges of the current coaching search, from the impact of management controversies to the allure of seasoned coaches like Pete Carroll and Mike Vrabel. We speculate on high-profile names like Mike Tomlin and how they could reshape the franchise's future. Join us as we unpack these complex dynamics, evaluate leadership potentials, and consider what's next for the Jaguars and their devoted fan base.
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James Johnson and Phil Smith bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Still running and a goal. That's it, let's go. Touchdown Jacksonville. A hundred and nine yards Incredible Play action. Portals Upstairs Wide open. Tommy Bohannon Touchdown Jacksonville. Looking for Jimmy in the end zone. Touchdown Jaguars. Touchdown Jaguars. Touchdown Jaguars.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. Here are your hosts, james Johnson and Phil Smith. Hey, everyone, welcome back to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your co-host, phil Smith, and joining me, as always, is your other co-host, james Johnson. And Jay, we are back after a very long hiatus, about a month actually since our last episode, unfortunately. You guys are certainly very aware with how difficult the season has been, not only as fans, but also just trying to cover the team and keep up with the nonsense and and we have even more nonsense to talk about here in this episode, jay. So I am happy to be back here with you once again after being away for so long, but we'll talk about the future of the team as well as kind of reflect on the season and you know what? Just try to have the best time possible here today. So, jay, jay, how are you? Happy New Year and, man, do we have a lot to talk about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess that's the good thing. We got a lot to talk about, which some of which already has been discussed. Shout out to everybody that joins, join me and Stodge on the TVJet or spaces. But, yeah, for those of you who didn't have time to come in on the space, yeah, me and Phil are going to rehash everything here and share our frustrations, probably and you know our outlook too, of course that's a key part of the moves made this week. So, yeah, man, glad to be back. I mean week. So, yeah, man, glad to be back. I mean, it is always interesting to see what we both have to say right after, like, we've been away from the mic for a while. So, yeah, I'm real curious about your thoughts, some of which I already know. But yeah, man, I can't wait to get into it. And yeah, look into the Jags future, as they will be going into a new era here not too soon from now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, let's just go ahead and dive right into it, and it's not prolonging any longer. We will just mention really quick. You can find everything you need in terms of following the podcast in the Linktree link in the show notes of this episode, as well as a link to our website, touchdownjaguarscom. But, jay, let's start with, I guess, the football on the field. You know the Jaguars did play their final game of the year in Indianapolis and you know, under, I think, regular circumstances in terms of just being a football fan, you know it ended up being a competitive game and we did get free football, with the Jaguars ultimately falling to the Indianapolis Colts 26 to 23 in overtime.
Speaker 1:I had this game on, you know, in the background as I was doing other things throughout the day.
Speaker 1:I know you got to get a little bit more of a look at it, I believe here today.
Speaker 1:I put this tweet out I think a week or so ago and, even though the season was miserable and borderline unwatchable, the fact that we got to watch a historic season from Brian Thomas Jr has been obviously the highlight and you know he added seven more catches for 103 yards, I believe solidified leading rookie receivers in receiving yards for the season and I know for sure, no matter how I feel about the team right now, I will definitely be excited about watching more BTJ in 2025. But other than that, jay, there wasn't too much that really stood out for me. Once again, you have a more fresh perspective on the game, so I am interested to see what you saw out there in terms of maybe some bright spots, maybe some efforts, whether it be solid effort or lack thereof. So what did you want to point out from this final game of the year up in Indy before we obviously start discussing? You know the real meat and potatoes of what this episode is going to be about?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think like what ultimately this game came down to was just they weren't able to really stop Jonathan Taylor man, like it was just too many runs where he was getting five, six, seven yards on the field man. So you know, that'll be definitely something to look at next year, especially when you know it's been a lot of conversation about what we added in the interior and Mason Smith or the lack of him playing. So, yeah, it'll be an interesting thing to watch going into next season, just because, again, jonathan Taylor is somebody we're going to have to see twice a year. He's not going anywhere anytime soon. And not only that. You know you would think, like the Titans, they're going to be looking to get a young quarterback soon, so they probably are going to want to run the ball to help him as well too. So that could be a point of exposure for the Jacksonville Jaguars Also.
Speaker 2:They just didn't do all that great with stopping Josh Downs. He had just under 100 yards. He had a few yardage after the catch situations. If I can recall correctly, alec Pierce had himself only two catches, but they were two very significant ones. Michael Pittman looked pretty solid on the day two had just over 70 yards as well. I think one thing that came to my attention is just the, when it comes to those receivers, is how much a need of a need we have a cornerback, despite paying Tyson Campbell so much, who he hasn't lived up to that contract. I know he just got it this year but between injuries and when he is on the field he hasn't lived up to that contract. Monteric Brown, who is somebody I thought was promising heading into this year, it's clear that you don't want him starting too many games and, of course, they've gotten to that point where he's had to start in a lot of games because of injuries and, you know, because they benched the corner that's escaping my mind right now that we got out of free agency. They benched him. So, yeah, all of that said like cornerback man is, it's looking like that whole secondary is gonna have to pick up some new pieces heading into the offseason and just as well as that, uh, interior defensive line.
Speaker 2:But in terms of on offense, uh, some of the things that you know stood out to me, of course, as you mentioned, uh, brian Thomas Jr, he had a touchdown taken away from him. I wish doug would have challenged it so he could have hit randy moss's, eclipse randy moss's record, but you know that's neither here or neither there. The run game to me didn't look bad at times, um a lot of times, when etn and bigsby were receiving, uh, their carries, it felt like they were getting four yards a pop, even though the stats would say differently. But they both got double-digit carries. So that makes sense because Mac Jones is obviously on the field, so you don't want him dropping back to throw it too much, obviously. But aside from that man, no other standouts, aside from btj.
Speaker 2:Really well, brenton strange, he was one. He continues to show promise right, uh, week after week. That's a guy that we'll be looking at heading forward. A lot of people have associated him with maybe getting rid of evan ingram. I wouldn't go that far with it. Me personally, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with having two good tight ends or three good tight ends. So I'm not really entertaining that conversation of getting rid of Evan Ingram, but I do think his development Brenton Strange's development has really shown up.
Speaker 2:He had four catches for 60 yards and he's a guy that you know. When we first got him people were like I don't know about that pick Right and they wanted to write him off after the first season and here he is, year two. He's made a drastic improvement in his play, has shown drastic ability or or has improved in terms of his ability as a receiver kind of like he's in that mold of Parker Washington as well as a pass catcher that got a lot better um in his second year. So, yeah, man, those are two pieces him and parker washington that we have to look forward to alongside btj, so maybe the pass game could be promising, whoever the coach is. Um and uh. Yeah, that was pretty much it that stood out to me yeah, and a lot of that.
Speaker 1:As far as bretton strange like wasn't his fault. It was just the issue that remember, going into that draft, we you, me and everybody else had them taking tight end x or tight end y, you know, at some point in the later rounds and bretton strange wasn't on anybody's radar. He also had a pretty like underwhelming tape in terms of highlight reels, right Like that's what people are looking for. They're looking for those big play catch. They're looking for that spectacular movement when it comes to like a tight end to really wow you and Brent and Strange doesn't really have that as far as I can remember. So I think that's why people panicked, and myself included, like I didn't know anything about brenton strange. But yeah, his uh leap from year one to year two has been solid, very similar to I won't say like totally similar to tank bigsby. Obviously he had a pretty solid year in terms of year one to year two. Obviously tank still has to work on that ball security, but there would be no benefit to getting rid of evan ingram in favor of breton Strange. Like you said, you know you look at a lot of these successful franchises. They have multiple tight ends that can catch the ball.
Speaker 1:Bretton Strange does not need to be a number one right away. Evan Ingram is still going to be that guy and you know, in terms of his leadership, I definitely don't think you can just move on from that, because Brett and strange had a couple of above average games based off of his his past play. So but yeah, you know, josh Heinz Allen didn't suit up. Obviously, a lot of the other big names are banged up, so we didn't see too much in terms of the stars of the team. Trayvon Walker did solidify his second straight 10 sack season, so 10 and a half for him on the year. I guess I'll just ask you this J Mac Jones, you kind of answered this question a little bit earlier in the season because I don't think we also discussed this. I don't think he's going to have like a ton of suitors. Do you keep him around and, you know, just kind of lock him in as your you know, your long-term backup quarterback yeah, I mean I, I honestly would be okay with it and interested to see if they do do it.
Speaker 2:As you said. You know, I don't think he's gonna have a lot of suitors, but just the energy he brings. You know, because, like, one of the things we keep talking about is culture, right which we'll get into that conversation some more later in this podcast is culture, culture, culture, right. Well, you have a kid that wants to be here, right, while he's not the best quarterback, he's shown enough ability to get you through. If you're in a bind where you need him to start one or two games, obviously you don't want him starting the amount of games that he started this year. But you know, in a role where he's coming in one or two games, you know he can get you through that storm, he can weather you through that storm.
Speaker 2:But just going back to what I was saying, you know you have a kid that clearly likes to be here. He plays with energy and passion. I mean the completions don't match it sometimes. But you know, and something else to consider with him to feel is what if the new coach and we'll have this conversation later to you know, and something else to consider with him to feel is, what if the new coach and we'll have this conversation later to you know who could that be, but what if the new coach can elevate him to become a better player? So you know, if, if the new coach sees potential in him and sees where they can make him a better player, he can make a leap, like we've kind of mentioned with some of these players like Brenton Strange and Parker Washington. If the coach that we hire can see that and have some kind of vision for him, I definitely think that you bring him back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what have we also said before in the past? Quarterbacks with actual game experience aren't just growing on trees, right? You're not just going to replace Mac Jones and his experience in the league as a starter just anywhere, right? So I think it makes a lot of sense to bring him back. He had a lot of. He had a few solid connections with BTJ as well over the last few games, so definitely want to keep a guy all around also that has the chemistry with some of the you know some of the guys on the team, especially the ones that are going to be here for the long term. You know, not only just BTJ, but Parker Washington. Like we talked about Evan Ingram.
Speaker 1:You know coming back healthy next year, brenton Strange so certainly don't see a reason to let go of him unless he's, you know, looking for some kind of absurd contract which, based off of his play. I don't really think that he would be asking for that, but I do think maybe there'd be some suitors, such as a like a team that's going to be in the Arch Manning sweepstakes next year, or the Penn State quarterback. Like teams like the Giants. You know teams like the Raiders that might be like a little bit outside of being able to select, you know, like Cam Ward or Shador Sanders. So those teams that are maybe looking ahead to the Arch Manning draft, if he even comes out next year I'm hoping that he does not. Obviously I would like to get as much out of Arch Manning as I possibly could as a Texas fan, but maybe those types of teams will like look at a Mac Jones, you know, to bring in a guy that has, like we said, the experience and the starts, and then they can just kind of coast on that until the 2026 draft. But yeah, jay, I mean in terms of the overall season, you know four and 13,. I think I have them going. I would have to go back and listen to it.
Speaker 1:I think my record prediction was either 11 and six or 12 and five. I think you had them at either nine and eight or 10 and seven. So you know things got away from them pretty quick. I think we both had an indication that once the season started, oh and four, and then eventually was one in five, that it was pretty much a wrap. You know not too many teams, if any, dig themselves out of that kind of hole and we knew that. You know those predictions were probably not going to go the way we wanted them to. And listen, they also lost 10 one-score games this year.
Speaker 1:So there is I say this all the time there is an alternate universe in which the Jacksonville Jaguars have a winning record and possibly are fighting for the number one seed in the AFC if some of these games go a different way. I mean, look at this Lost to Miami by three, lost to Cleveland by five, lost to Houston by four. Let's see, lost to Green Bay by three, philly five, minnesota five. Blowout to Detroit, houston by three, philly five, minnesota five. Blow out to Detroit, houston by three. New York losing by seven, vegas losing by five, and then obviously, the overtime loss. All those games, if I can recall correctly, jay, they were competitive in all those games. And you don't get, you know, because sometimes you get these scores and people think, oh, that was a close game, but it wasn't really. These were actually all close games that they could have won. And, like I said, some alternate universe. Trevor Lawrence is about to lead the Jaguars into the playoffs right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, maybe that played into why they didn't do a full reset, which we'll talk about later. But yeah, I mean, yeah, when you get caught up in a season where they didn't exceed expectations, recognize it is easy to lose sight of what you just said, like it wasn't, like they were getting blown out a lot you know, aside from, like um, the detroit game and maybe a few others, I think buffalo's got.
Speaker 1:yeah, buffalo got nasty, got nasty, but um Prime time. What was that? Sunday night football.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So no Monday, that was Monday night football. Oh God, even worse, right, which I mean that's also a reason, you know, that's also an alarming thing to see and an alarming reason to make a full change, right. It's like, well, when you play teams that you would see in the playoffs or the Super Bowl, like everything goes down to crapper. So yeah, man, I just wish a lot of those close scoring games could have been resulted in, you know, could have resulted in some wins, and we're having a whole different conversation now.
Speaker 2:So I mean, it just kind of goes back to that conversation, right, that we've had in the past you know we had it during the Urban Meyer era, when Urban Meyer was let go Is the team just simply didn't know how to win. You hear that from the players. Trayvon Walker mentioned it, I believe, and you know he was talking to it might have been Brent or Action Sports News or somebody after the game. Is that, you know, they just have to learn how to win and they got to establish that winning mindset and winning culture. So we'll see. You know that that's going to obviously depend on whoever the coach is, you know.
Speaker 1:So like that should be a key thing that is emphasizing the coaching search heading forward yeah, who that coach will be and who is who's going to want the job remains to be seen, so we will discuss that here shortly. But, jay, any other reflections about the season overall or this past game that you want to throw out here before we move on to what is obviously, uh, the most pressing topic here this evening?
Speaker 2:nah, man, it's time, time to move on and look forward because, as we said, the season was disastrous. While we did get some good things out of it for the most part, it is one that I'd much rather forget.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we need to leave that season in the past as soon as possible, Unlike ShotKhan who refuses to leave Trent Bulkey in the past, only firing Doug Peterson on Monday morning following Jacksonville's week 18 loss, Once again finishing the season on 4-13. Got Zach Goodall's article up here from the Jaguars Wire, the statement from ShotKhan reading quote I had the difficult task this morning of informing Doug Peterson of my intention to hire a new head coach to lead the Jacksonville Jaguars. Doug is an accomplished football man who undoubtedly, and who will undoubtedly, enjoy another chapter in his impressive NFL career and I'll be rooting for Doug and his wife, Jenny, when that occasion arrives. As much as Doug and I both wish his experience here in Jacksonville would have ended better, I have an obligation, first and foremost, to serve the best interests of our team and especially our fans doubtful who faithfully support our team and are overdue to be rewarded in that spirit. The time to summon new leadership is now. Later on in that statement he said I will collaborate with general manager Trent Balke and others within and close to our organization to hire a leader who shares my ambition and is ready to seize the extraordinary opportunity we will offer.
Speaker 1:In Jacksonville, Peterson ended up going 22-29 in the regular season and 23-30 including the postseason, during his 53 games here with Jacksonville and Jay, you know when that news came out. You know, obviously, the game ends on Sunday and everybody is anticipating the next 24 hours. First off, the poor Jaguars had to sit in a tarmac in Indianapolis for who knows how long and I think they got home finally like very, very early Monday morning. So they had to, you know, not only sit there and think about their loss and who their head coach is going to be, and they had to sit on a plane for hours. So that's just a dreadful way to end the season, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:And then this news comes out. You know, the Doug Peterson firing certainly not a surprise, but the Trent Baalke sticking around has really been the straw that has broken the camel's back, so to speak, with a lot of fans, including myself. As soon as this news came out, I called the Jacksonville Jaguar ticket office and told them to make sure my tickets do not renew for 2025. I had been saying it this entire time If they continue this course and keep Trent Baalke, I'm not going to give this team any more of my money. It's not worth it. I can put those funds elsewhere than giving them to a team and an owner who is unserious about winning, Keeping Trent Baalke around. You can even see it in the reactions that are being reported out of other NFL camps about this decision making absolutely no sense and possibly costing you a very good coaching candidate, which we'll talk about here in a moment.
Speaker 1:But making this decision and then coming out with that statement those two things juxtapose. You are not concerned about the fans and want to quote unquote reward the fans but then also, in the same statement, say you're going to keep someone at Trent Baalke who is bad at his job. I guarantee you there has probably been nobody else in Shad Khan's work history and his rise to his success that's probably been as bad at his job as Trent Baalke. I bet you there is nobody within any organization he has ever worked with that is as incompetent as Trent Baalke is. Yet somehow he's going to get his chance to hire a third head coach. He's going to once again pick in the top five of the NFL draft and, yeah, we've gotten some hits that we've never shied away from acknowledging when Trampolki has selected the right player.
Speaker 1:But you know people have been talking about this online as well. Btj might have been a Doug Peterson decision, who knows, but you are not going to sit up here and tell me you were serious about winning and rewarding the fans while also keeping this person around. So that's it for me. I'm done. Texted our buddy, Eric, immediately. He said hey, I canceled my season tickets. They're retaining Trent Baalke and I'm not going to do it anymore. So those were my initial reactions, Jay, the moment we found out, yeah, man, it was a.
Speaker 2:It was a flat out gut punch, you know, when, uh, we got word that he'd be staying, uh, but it's more so a gut punch because you know the reports say that, you know, sean Conn was, you know, basically retaining Trent Baalke would not be smart, for the simple fact that he restrict what you can do in terms of a coaching search. And, despite getting that news, shotgun kept him anyway, right, him anyway, right. And um, it was a little blurb put out today shout outs to whirlybird on twitter who, um, he got a blurb, I think it was from a sam cavar's article that says what it could be, and we kind of pieced this together by listening to the press conference, the zoom conference, which we could dig deeper into that too. But, um, basically the blurb in the article by sam cavarish was saying that khan doesn't trust the opinions enough in the building outside of trent balky. So that that's very striking and very telling and that, to me, that says well, you know, that's on you as the owner of this team, to build a better relationship and get a better pulse or get a better grasp of what's going on in your building. Right, that's, that's a sign to me that you're a little bit too much absentee. Grasp and a pulse and you don't have an idea of what is best for the organization and what is best for the people working in that organization is inexcusable.
Speaker 2:Now look, you know, shaad Khan is, he's the owner of the team. He can ultimately do what he wants and he can run the team how he wants. But to put things into perspective, right, if he ran Flexingate like this, which is that's the bumper company, it wouldn't have become the entity that it would, right. So it's a little bit different with the NFL, because they all take money from one big pot and whether you win or lose, you still get, you know, a lot of money. But I would say that if he ran any of his other companies like that that are outside of the sports realm, they will be probably ran into the ground.
Speaker 2:But all of that said, man, as I was saying, going back to my initial reaction, it was a gut punch. It was already hard to get through the season Right, and you know, I'll admit it. You know, one of the things that kind of has caused me and you to not record too is just the energy that was taken out of us from the season, right, and also to just the constant mindset of well, trent Baalke be gone, right. We started thinking about this way back in you know what, three, two, three months ago, thinking that you know, at least Shaq Khan would come to his senses and make this move, and he still didn't do it.
Speaker 2:And then for us to go through the season, that made it only harder, and for him to still not realize what's going on and what's taking place before him, whether it's the scores on the field, whether it's the people in the building, whatever the case may be, it was just all deflating, right, and it's just hard to put that diehard fan energy that we've had over the course of the years. It's hard to keep putting that diehard energy into the team when your owner is just so oblivious to what's going on, right, and the team's owner is so oblivious to what's going on. So, yeah, that being said, man, it was one of the worst days in Jags history. Yesterday was when he announced it. They didn't make it any better by doing the press conference or the Zoom conference that they did, because that even further validated I don't know if you've seen it, phil, but that even further validated that Khan was clueless and just oblivious to what's going on.
Speaker 1:So I want to hear your thoughts on that real quick and if you saw it, I saw bits and pieces of it, but I've certainly seen the part that everyone is talking about, even outside of Jaguar Twitter, where, you know, shouts out to Mia, who asked ShotKhan like hey, what if and I'm paraphrasing here, I don't have the actual question in front of me you know, if a coach comes in or there's a coaching candidate that wants a different general manager, like, is this something that? Is that something you'd consider? Thenent shot khan basically says yeah, yeah, I'd probably consider it, with tram bulky sitting right there or you know, right there in the zoom call with him. And yeah, that's you're, you're right, it does just go to show how clueless he is about this whole process. And if you felt that way, then you should have totally cleaned house, if you're okay with the right coat. Like, who's to say that somebody doesn't come in? The, you know coach doesn't come in, and totally, you know, jedi mind trick shot con. The same way, trend bulky appears to have done so, like we've heard of general managers sometimes sticking around, you know, until the draft before you know, either stepping away or being let go. But like the way Shotgun's talking about it, he's he's saying Trampolki is going to be here for a long time Like this, is his partner when it comes to this and like you said, you know, like you said in that article, like for some reason he only trusts Trent Balki with the future of this franchise. And you know I texted the group this morning about Vasselli's appearance on you know 1010, which obviously he's on all the time.
Speaker 1:But talking about how he said that Trent Balki, there's no way Trent Balki would manipulate himself, you know, other people, or the coaches, or or Shad Khan, to save his own job, bs, tony, that is complete BS and you know it. And I know that he is obviously very heavily involved within the organization and you know he's got a responsibility to toe this line. I know that's not easy for him to do, but I know he knows that that's complete nonsense, especially since we saw all of this play out in San Francisco already. And he also mentioned that coaches because there's only so many spots coaches aren't going to pass up on the opportunity to be a head coach in the NFL just because of the general manager. Like hell, they won't. Why would a head coach? We just saw Ben Johnson last year remove himself from interviews because he was not ready for that opportunity.
Speaker 1:So these up-and-coming coaches, these coordinators, the Aaron Glens, the Ben Johnsons, these guys they have the opportunity now to wait because teams like the Patriots and the Raiders did here in the last, you know, 48 hours, teams are moving on from coaches faster than ever. It's an epidemic and as far as coach firings. So yes, they can, they can and will be patient and wait on the correct job and not pair themselves with a snake like Trent Balky. So that was another thing that irritated me here earlier this morning. We're recording here this, we're recording this here on Tuesday night. So, yeah, I definitely want to get your thoughts on, you know, baseli's thoughts, or Baseli had to say this morning, but yes, I did see, you know, to circle back those bits and pieces of that.
Speaker 2:Just very strange, zoom call to circle back those bits and pieces of that just very strange zoom call. Yeah, man, it was one of the worst moments in jazz history. That zoom call itself not just the announcement that Trent Baalke would be coming back, but the zoom call itself. I watched the whole thing and Sean Cunn's mannerisms and responses in that zoom call just I'm not, I not, I'm going to call it what it is it made me sick to my stomach as a longtime diehard Jaguar fan. It made me flat out sick Like I had to pause it and step away from the computer because his mannerisms and his responses just show just how clueless he is to football and just how clueless he is to what he purchased in the NFL franchise.
Speaker 2:Now, look, I understand it. Owners don't have to be like football gurus and understand a game to a tee and all of that. But it feels like the person that purchased the Jacksonville Jaguars and Shaq Khan shotgun is somebody I don't even want to say like it was a quick money grab for him, because I do think he cares, but it feels like he purchased them out of a hobby. You know what I'm saying. Like this, this hobby of billionaires get, you know I don't want to say they get desperate with their money, but they get curious with their money, right, and they want to buy things and see how to go. And obviously this was a hobby or something like that he was curious about. It paid off in the sense that he bought the team and shout out to Stodge, who mentioned this in the spaces he bought the team for about 750 million and now you know it's over what two billion in or four billion or something like that in net worth now billion in or four billion or something like that in net worth now. So obviously, if it was a hobby or it was something that he wanted to try his hand in just out of curiosity, it's paid off from that sense. But that's not to say that he wouldn't put his efforts into winning at all. He has.
Speaker 2:But when it comes to these type of things, the fans, you know they want somebody who's going to put their best into winning, that's going to put their all into winning, because they put their all and their hard earned paychecks and their you know salaries into this team, whether it's through merchandise, season tickets, like you, whatever the case may be their time as well, and they put a lot of their time in the past into this team. So to have somebody who doesn't match that energy right like other owners around the league that actually want to win and that are actually embarrassed enough to make the moves that need to be necessary once they get embarrassed like the jaguars have been uh, aaron pointed this out. Shout out to our buddy, aaron, that you know, since shot come brought purchased this team, he's got the worst losing record in history in the history of the nfl, which is like or or of existing owners. I think is what he was saying, which is just insane. Man is insane. And you go from that to wanting to keep Trent Baalke is just something that I can't even put together why you would do that. But in terms of Bocelli, I haven't seen or heard what Bocelli said. I think I might have saw one clip on Twitter and I'm not shocked because you know all due respect to the OG man and what he put into this game and this city and this team.
Speaker 2:When we got rid of Tom Coughlin and we were asking to get rid of Tom Coughlin, right, he was the same way. Right, he's a. He's a person that wears his heart on his sleeve and you know he doesn't like to say a lot of bad things about the franchise, and it could be because, in a way, he works for him, uh, or maybe it's just something that's near and dear to his heart, but so that's the same thing that applies to us. It's near and dear to our heart too. That doesn't mean we can't speak our mind about the team, right. That's. That doesn't mean we can't call them out for their shortcomings and their issues, right, you? Sometimes you have to keep it real, right.
Speaker 2:And as somebody who has played the game himself and stepped on the field himself and put blood, sweat and tears into this franchise himself, he has even more of a reason than you and I feel, to call it like it is. He's left blood on that field at Everbank or whatever they call it. I guess it's going to change eventually, but he's left blood on that field, he's left bumps and bruises and the game caused him to leave. He had to leave the game early. He put a lot of his life into this franchise and for me, I believe that's all the more reason that he needs to call it like it is and quit being a homer on this situation, because we all know Trent Baalke's resume.
Speaker 2:We all have seen this many, many times. We all have seen how gullible Shaad Khan is and look man, we love these people to death, right, but we're calling it like it is. We all seen how gullible Shaad Khan is and, that being said, when you put the two together between Trent Baalke being the little finger of the NFL, basically, and Shaad Khan being one of the most out of tune owners in the NFL when you put that together, yeah, you probably got a bad coaching search coming on your hands, and everything that Bo Selly said won't happen is likely to happen. But you know, I guess we'll ultimately see how it goes. But if you made me put money on it and how disjointed and how terrible this coaching search is going to go, I would probably put good money on it. That it's not gonna go well, you know. So that's my opinion on it. Um, on, in terms of, you know shot khan's decision and you know how bocelli has reacted to the decision to keep Trent Baalke.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, when you're talking about betting odds, jay, those betting odds have shifted here over the last 24 or so hours. So, you know, let's talk about those interview requests that have been put in, because we are going to have to shift focus to what is going to happen next now in terms of who the next head coach of this team is going to be and what their staff is going to look like. Now there are some names on this list that we did mention back a few months ago. That's how bad the season was, I think. Like what was it like? Six weeks in, we were doing a head coaching and gm episode, which is crazy, right in the middle, like in the first half of the season. Definitely not not a good sign for things to come.
Speaker 1:But let's talk about these names here, jay, that they released here earlier today that they will, that they have put interview requests in. I believe two of them we do know, no, just one. I believe that I I saw how we do know is meeting with them virtually on Friday. I'm not sure about the rest of these names, though, but the names are Kellen Moore, todd Munkin, joe Brady, liam Cohen, ben Johnson, aaron Glenn, patrick Graham and Robert Sala, so a few names on there that people are probably very familiar with. Obviously, the the golden goose of this coaching cycle is going to be Ben Johnson, and you know then some other names on there that have either coached elsewhere or have always found themselves in conversations for head coaching spots.
Speaker 1:So, jay, initially, what do you think about this list? And also, as I mentioned, betting favorites, it went from Ben Johnson to being the favorite, I believe, maybe 24 to 30 hours ago. It has now switched and flipped to Liam Cohen being the favorite, and that's just how the betting odds are going, just because you can bet on anything now. But what do you think of this list of names? As far as interview requests go, and you know, I mean, who knows how many of these guys are even going to be open to working with Trent Baalke?
Speaker 2:right, that's the key, right. And uh, yeah, I think the odds were 150 for cohen, negative 150 and then like plus 300 for johnson. Last time I checked and um, prior johnson was in the lead. So, as you said in the past, vegas, you know all of these beautiful hotels, the bellagio and whatnot. You know they know their stuff when it comes to how to get the funds to build that stuff. So I wouldn't put it past them that they know what's going on in the know on this, which that's actually encouraging when you look at it from that standpoint, that they see Cohen and Johnson as the favorites, right? So, just going back to what I was saying, I'm not confident that the search will go as well as you know the odds are saying and the reason I'm saying that is right like right now the odds look good for the Jaguars to get a very good coach, but who's to say they won't mess this up and then the odds drop and then somebody else becomes the favorite, right? So if anybody can make Vegas and the odds makers out there alter their odds is the Jacksonville Jaguars because of how just disjointed and just how they run coaches, searches and just how unorganized they are. So if those stats stay like they are right, that will probably be a sign that they're doing things right for the most part, aside from not, you know, aside from not moving on from Trent Balky, but we'll see in time, we'll tell on that. But, yeah, of this list when you mentioned this list, I mean it's a good list on paper, right, but we all know you can't get excited with this team. And, by the way, the key here these are requests. Right, these aren't people that are confirmed to be taking interviews. Now I will say that Aaron Glenn will be taking an interview. I think Ian Rappaport reported that, so that's one that we do have in the bag right there. But in terms of anybody else on this list of requests, nobody else at least it hasn't been reported yet has said yes, right. So we'll see how bulky affects that and who says yes and who says no.
Speaker 2:But on paper, yeah, it looks like a great list, and some of these names, or even names that we put on our head coaching list Todd Munkin was one of them. I think he probably will end up taking an interview for the simple fact that he might not be the top guy on some people's list and his chances might be better with the Jaguars, because he played, uh, he worked for the Jaguars under Del Rio and he's a little bit up there in age, not that saying he's like too old to coach, but I think he's like 57, so that kind of helps his eyes. Maybe Liam Cohen is a name that, um, we didn put on our list, but I would be very excited about that because he's a Sean McVay disciple and just kind of watching what he's done over there with Tampa Bay has been nothing short of miraculous. And we can scheme up for Trevor Lawrence. We'll be very excited about that offer. Now, again, like I would fear for him because he's paired with Trent Balky. Now, again, like I would fear for him, because he's paired with Trent Baalke, he'd have to look over his shoulder every week and you know there'll be a power struggle, because it's always a power struggle with Trent Baalke. But I like that hire Robert Sala, not even shocked that he's on this list, for the simple fact he also worked for the Jacksonville Jaguars and there are reports coming out saying that he is somebody that they think highly of in the building. And then, in terms of these other names, of course I would put Ben Johnson up there with Cohen, but again with Ben Johnson being so selective, right, and so, you know, picky about where he would go.
Speaker 2:The big question mark is does he want to work with Trent Baalke and we talked about this in the space field. This is an interesting conversation to have because Sean Conn said he would be open. At least how I gathered it, he'd be open to at least hearing out a coach's argument to get a new GM and to make some front office changes With. Sean Conn is looking at it a little differently than he should. Sean Conn's looking at it as like they're going to overhaul like a group of 80 people, and that's not the case. That's another thing. Sean Conn just doesn't understand how these things work. But something I mentioned in the space, right?
Speaker 2:Phil, I want to know your opinion on this is if you're Ben Johnson and you do take an interview and I don't know that he will, but if you take an interview, right, you could just simply prove the shot, come with just simple ABC type of stuff of how you can make this team better by replacing Trent Baalke, right, the guy that he wants to get in the building, reportedly Lance Newmark, to be the GM. Uh, who's with the Washington Commanders right now? He's their assistant GM, right? They're playing in the playoffs right now, right? So if you're you're Ben Johnson and you come in and take an interview and you say like, hey, I want my own GM, you could tell Shotgun to simply, hey, pop on the tape of the Washington Commanders and how quick they turn things around. They turn things around in one year. My guy Lance did that. Right, pop on the tape of them this weekend when they play in the playoffs and let me know if you see what you like, if you like what you see on the offensive line, the defensive line, what their quarterback is doing.
Speaker 2:My guy Lance Newmark built that.
Speaker 2:Look at what we got here in Detroit.
Speaker 2:My guy Lance Newmark had a say in building this as well before he went to Washington. Or, you know, you can make a case for Ray Agnew, who we have as well, the assistant GM currently with the Detroit Lions. Look what my guy built, right, he's built so much of a good thing here. We're having a first round buy right now. Or Phil, better yet, he can always do this. He can simply say, hey, pop on that tape of when you played us, which they blew us out right and you tell me who you think constructed the better team my guy Lance Newmark or my guy Ray Agnew or Trent Baalke? The proof is in the pudding. You can lay out simple things like that. So if Ben Johnson is of that mindset, I would say he does need to take an interview because he can put it out there of just how much of a superior organization the Lions are, and even the Washington Commanders are, in terms of the guys that he might bring in as a GM. But maybe I'm looking too much into it myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I'm curious if, like, that's what it would take. Like that's what it would take, like what if robert sala comes in talks to shod khan, is like, hey, you know, even if, like, I'm not going to take this job, even if you don't go with me, you got to let trent balky go like it's going to cost you in the long run in terms of getting the guy in here that you want, because I think I saw some reports out there that shod khan was very upset that robert sala had like kind of gotten away from him after Doug Marone was let go. So, you know, maybe it's going to take something like that for a guy that maybe he, he respects somehow you know as much as Trent Balky, like a Robert Sala or some guy like that to come in here and and let him know hey, this is what's happening, this is what discussions are being had, because you've decided to partner with Trent Baalke again for the foreseeable future. So, yeah, that's a good point. I would like to know and I'm sure we'll never find out if a coaching candidate would come into the interview and tell him straight up I would be interested in this job, but I'm not going to work with Trent Baalke. Here's who I would be interested in this job. But I'm not going to work with Trent Baalke. Here's who I would like.
Speaker 1:And in that embarrassing Zoom press conference, shotkhan's own words said yeah, you know, I'll take a look at it, I'll consider it. So then, what are you going to do then at that point? You know, feet held to the fire. So, yeah, like you said, these are just requests. So far, we only know about Aaron Glenn at the time of recording. That could change by the time this episode comes out. But there are a lot of really good names on this list. And not only that, jay. There are good names on this list that could assemble a good staff, which I think could be very, very exciting as well. Are there any names that you haven't seen here yet that you would like to see added? There aren't other than Robert Sala. I believe he is the only one on here with head coaching experience. Are there any of those veteran head coaches you'd like to see them interview? You know your Mike Rabels, pete Carroll, guys of that ilk that you'd like to see them put in these requests for it and hopefully even bring in for an interview.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you said the two that were at the top of my mind right now, that was Pete Carroll and Vrabel, more so Pete Carroll, now that they are keeping bulky because Pete Carroll is not going to put up with Trent's BS. Pete Carroll is going to come in with a clear-cut plan, maybe even a better plan than Ben Johnson and all of these first-time guys, even though Ben Johnson's been picky and it seems like he has a clear direction of where he wants to go. But Pete Carroll's been in the game a long time and I'm sure he's known of Trent Baalke's reputation for a long time. He's the type of guy that would come in, have a clear plan, a clear direction, a clear way to verbalize at the shot come why they should move on from him, and he'd have a GM in mind as well, if not two. I've also named a few guys that he could bring in. Ed Dodds is a guy he's worked with in the past and it's another guy, nolan Teasley, that works for the Seahawks right now, that he might want to bring in reportedly as well.
Speaker 2:But unfortunately Pete isn't on the list as well. But unfortunately Pete isn't on the list Now. Mike Vrabel might not be on the list because he, as of now, doesn't technically work for organization. So I think his contract with the Browns he was like a consultant with the Browns last year, this season, I think it expired a few weeks ago. So maybe they have spoken with him and he hasn't. You know, you don't have to report it or verbalize it that you spoke with him, but he's another guy because you know, I don't think while I did read something that said him and Balki are cool, he still won't be pushed around by Balki, right, and you know he has the wherewithal to outlast Balky, even though that seems like an impossible thing to do, but he has the wherewithal to outlast Balky, who is only on. He only has one year on his contract.
Speaker 2:Left, right, phil? That's what muddies things here. That's what makes it difficult, right, is these coaches? You're essentially asking them to sign on with the GM that has one year on his contract. Now maybe, look, balky has it in his mind that he'll retire or something like that. But how do these coaches trust that he will right? That's what makes it so much difficult, but that's another story for another time. But those two guys are two guys that especially Carroll, or that I'm more high on than I was. I think I had Vrabel at the top of my list anyway, but I would actually put Carroll at the top of the list more than Vrabel now, just for the simple fact of Carroll's experience and just how I feel like he would react to Trent Baalke being the one that he's linked to.
Speaker 1:What about a guy like Brian Flores, jay, any interest there? Obviously, flores has a reputation of, I think, being a pretty hard-nosed coach in terms of his coaching style, and that works for some people and maybe doesn't for others, but what about him? His name has also been thrown out there for some other teams in the league.
Speaker 2:Not for us. I do want to see Flores get a second chance, but just on, you know, and obviously he's learned some things and he's learned how to become a better coach. You know, since he was fired and you know he spent some time with who was it Pittsburgh? And then he spent some time with the Vikings. So you know, obviously he's learned some things from Mike Tomlin and coach McConnell over there with the Vikings and he's probably going to be a better candidate than he was before.
Speaker 2:But still, you know, I have my concerns with him and just the partnering of Trevor Lawrence, just the simple fact of what we heard about, like how you know, know Tua was coached up and you know, at the same time, you do want to have a quarterback that has thick skin. You know what I'm saying. So you know that'll be a challenge for Trevor in terms of, you know, him having thicker skin and being able to deal with a coach like Flores. But then again, maybe Flores is a better coach and can better verbalize what he needs out of his quarterback as well. So he certainly will be a guy on the top of my list, but I do want him to get another opportunity somewhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree, and I guess the last thing we'll throw out here before we wrap up this episode and you know we do plan on getting back on track here as the head coaching search uh moves on and then heading into, uh, you know, the draft process. But the last thing I threw out there just because, uh, you know this is a a huge hypothetical, but adam schefter threw out the idea of teams maybe contacting the pittsburgh steelers about Mike Tomlin if they find themselves losing again in the first round of the playoffs this year here in the wildcard to Baltimore. And here's the thing I think it was I was listening to, I think it was on Sportsman Like, which is the I talked about the morning show that's on ESPN radio right now the Steelers would never fire Mike Tomlin and Mike Tomlin would never just willingly like walk away. Right, I think, the mutual respect between those two and between the Rooney family and what he has meant to that franchise I don't think they would ever allow themselves to come to those kind of terms or for for them to ever like fire Mike Tomlin.
Speaker 1:I also believe I heard that Mike Tomlin has a no trade clause. But like, those things can be worked out. But is there a guy like a Mike Tomlin, kevin Stefanski you know we're just throwing out names here Again, major hypotheticals when it comes to some of these names Is there a coach out there that you would trade draft capital for to bring in here? Now with Mike Tomlin also somebody also mentioned this like Adam Schefter doesn't bring stuff up like this if he hasn't heard it from somewhere, so like you can just call and be like hey, hey, what's going on Rooney's? Like you know you just lost again. You, you know you're not going to pick high in the draft because you're never really bad enough. Like maybe you're ready for a change. What's the deal with mike thomas? You know, like is there a guy out there that you would you would give up that draft capital for to bring him in and make him the new head coach?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's just a matter of what the jaguars do it with trent balky as the gm and the overseer of draft capital. But yeah, I mean, like sh Shanahan is one of them that you didn't mention. You know his name is Kyle.
Speaker 1:Shanahan. Yeah, for sure, sean. Probably not Sean McVay. They might go, you know, remember I mean Sean McVay. They were like retirement rumors for him like a year ago, so I don't know about Sean McVay.
Speaker 2:Well, hey, look, you know, for somebody who is thinking about retirement, right, they would be attracted to the state of Florida. So you know, maybe you give him a call. I don't. I don't see Sean McVay. If he does retire, how would I put? I don't see him leaving the Rams. You know he I think he'll be a coach. That would only work for the Rams and that's it. So I don't see Sean McVay doing that. But I would call about Shanahan see what they're talking about over there which I doubt they're ready to get rid of him. But I mean he could push his way out of there because he doesn't have the roster and the situation that he once had.
Speaker 2:People are getting older. A lot of money has been spent there. I know you can finesse the cap and all of that, but a lot of money has been spent that way and you know you can find yourself here with a Trevor Lawrence, somebody who you could be with long term, who you know has the talent and ability you need out of a quarterback not a knock on Brock Purdy, but you know we, we all know like he's probably limited. You know what I'm saying as to what he can be as a quarterback. And then you don't have to go through that whole situation of you know he's coming up on a contract that they have to decide if they want to pay him or not. That's a difficult situation to navigate right now. Do you pay Brock Purdy top tier quarterback money? You don't have to deal with that in here. You know Trevor Lawrence has already been paid his contract. You know he even showed some flashes this year, even though you know he ended the year on IR. I would think he has put more on tape in terms of his ability and what he could be than Brock Purdy and what his ceiling can be that would attract Kyle Shanahan.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I mean yeah, mike Tumley man. You know I got love for Mike Tumley, not spoken nothing but good things about him. I mean I, I got a great amount of respect for the Pittsburgh Steelers organization. You know for the the most part in terms of what you know they built in terms of their teams and their rosters, and you know how they've matched up with us in the past and you know their arrival of ours right. So, mike Tomlin man, I can't help but have love for him and just you know what he also means to the African-American community too, which you know that'll be a big thing too by bringing him to Jacksonville as well. Like you know, he's a he's idolized in our community, so I would love to see that man and he's a great person, right? You know we've heard him on um, the pivot podcast. You know, when they asked him, like why didn't you let Ike Taylor play, when he was really in a situation where he wanted to play this, that and the other, and Mike Tomlin's response like I care about him being able to go home and see his family and whatnot and you know I got to sleep at the end of the night, like I don't want to put nobody on the field that their life could be ended or they're in a situation where their life could be ended. So that just speaks volumes about his character as well.
Speaker 2:Stefanski yeah, I like Stefanski too. Great, brilliant, offensive mind, right, he's just in a terrible situation with the Browns. Wouldn't mind bringing him over? I think he would turn this organization into something very positive as well. I mean, we've seen what he did for the culture with the Cleveland Browns, who have a poor culture. Like that's what you want is somebody that has a proven track record of improving poor cultures. He's done that Right, so he's another name to look at as well. I like all of those names and Shanahan as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those coach trades don't happen very often, but, you know, in a strange year with some teams that are underperforming, then, who knows, stranger things have certainly happened.
Speaker 1:But, jay, we just wanted to obviously get back on here and get an episode out for everybody. We apologize for our absence, but you can certainly still keep up with us on social media as we keep you guys up to date with everything in terms of this new head coaching search and who knows what the hell else is going to happen when it comes to this football team. But, jay, anything else you want to discuss right now, I'm sure one week from now we'll have a whole plethora of things to discuss once again. So, even though the season is over in terms of the actual football on the field, uh, offseason champs seems like it's probably going to escape us this year. I don't know how you feel about that. You know we typically feel pretty good heading into the offseason, but right now, who knows how we'll feel in even just a few days? But anything else you want to discuss with our audience before we wrap up for the evening and start focusing on whatever is next?
Speaker 2:nah, man, that's it. Man, it was good to be able to get a second opportunity to vent about this after the spaces. Man, it's always good catching up with you and hearing your thoughts as well, but no man, um, you know it just, it's going to be an interesting next few weeks, man, in terms of what's going on with this team and what direction they go in in terms of a head coach, and I can't wait to. Although I'm not thrilled about who's the GM, I still can't wait to find out, you know, who's going to be the next coach of the Jacksonville Jaguars. Again, like you know, they might've turned me from a diehard to more of a casual Jags fan. We'll see, time will tell on that, but still I do want to see what they do in terms of this coaching search and you know, of course, we'll be all ears and reporting it and keeping everybody up to date on the latest.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so make sure you check that Linkt tree link in the show notes of this episode. You'll find everything you need the website, touchdown jaguars, as well as our social media pages. So, folks, thank you so much for sticking with us. I know in terms of you know, content, this year was obviously a lot lighter than it typically would be, but, like jay man, it was. It was exhausting to watch this team and just as exhausting to cover it and motivation to talk about them. But we are back. We're going to continue to cover this team and and cover this coaching search. So make sure you stick around and we'll keep you up to date with everything you need to know. That is my co-host, james Johnson. I am Phil Smith. Don't forget to tune in to Touchdown Jaguars for each and every Jaguar touchdown and we'll see you next time, folks.