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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 107: The End of the Baalke Era - A Fresh Start or Missed Opportunity?
The Jacksonville Jaguars have finally moved on from General Manager Trent Baalke, marking a significant turning point for the franchise. With new hope for the future, discussions center around hiring a new General Manager and Head Coach to build a winning culture.
• Baalke's tenure ends after years of disappointment
• The need for alignment between the GM and head coach
• Trevor Lawrence as the franchise cornerstone
• Importance of a proactive approach in the NFL Draft
• Potential coaching candidates and their qualifications
• Fan engagement and transparency as keys to success
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James Johnson and Phil Smith bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Still running and good, that is a goal, good. Touchdown Jacksonville 109 yards. Incredible, incredible Play action Upstairs Wide open. Tommy Bohannon Touchdown Jacksonville, looking for Jimmy in the end zone. Touchdown Jaguars. Touchdown Jaguars, touchdown Jaguars.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. Here are your hosts, james Johnson and Phil Smith. Hello everyone, welcome back to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your co-host, phil Smith, joined by your other co-host, james Johnson and Jay.
Speaker 1:The day has arrived. It is January 22nd, right around 5.30 pm Eastern Time, and, jay, we are fans of a football team that is Trent Bulky free. Finally, after all of this time essentially since the inception of the Touchdown Jaguars podcast, we have been trying to accomplish what has been finally accomplished today, and that is getting one snake oil salesman, trent Balke, up out of here. And that has finally happened. And we knew that we had to record this impromptu episode today.
Speaker 1:We've kind of been waiting for the head coaching search to wrap up, but now that a whole bunch of things have happened and, of course, the big news of the day happening, we could not let any time pass, any more time pass before getting together and recording this episode. So good to be here with you. It will be a day of celebration, but also a day of frustration, you know, as we kind of navigate this episode, as this is something that should have happened, honestly, a month ago. So good to be here with you. How are you feeling? And, yeah, excited to get this episode up and out to the people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, first and foremost, man, as you said, man, I guess I feel like mission accomplished, right, because me and you have had this discussion. You've had this discussion. Uh, I think like we were kind of at the forefront, or close to it, of being the vocalist of wanting to get trent balky out of here. Like we were kind of like some of the first people to start like pushing that even when urban meyer, when they first hired urban meyer, you know, even for urban, we were saying like I don't know that you want to pair him with the guy that had the issues that he had in san Francisco and Trent Baalke, because that, you know, he has the tendency to stay around, which he did even after Urban was fired and caused long term damage and problems. But nonetheless, it is mission accomplished in terms of the agenda we've been pushing and that is for this team to free themselves of Trent Baalke. So they did that today and I couldn't believe what I was seeing.
Speaker 2:I was outside trying to, you know, clear the snow away from my water pipe. That's another thing. Like it's been crazy weather. So, if this all of is happening, as jacksonville got snow and no, not jacksonville well, yeah, actually north jacksonville got snow. So that's crazy in itself, but all of this is happening as everybody is home right and just hunkering down and playing it safe, so I guess, what better day for it to happen, um, when people are not at work and can actually, uh, have discussions, which we already had to.
Speaker 2:By the way, we had a space Shout outs to you, phil, for coming in we appreciate it and Aaron and everybody else that jumped in, jacob DeLawrence, former podcast host, with you and I, man, and we had a discussion about the Liam Cohen situation, which we'll discuss. We'll rehash that, of course, because that's a big part of today and today's news. But, yeah, circling back to Balki, man is mission accomplished. Yeah, it is too late, we'll discuss that as well, but I guess, as the saying goes, better late than never. And it does open up although Shotgun is still in charge of the search a window of hope.
Speaker 2:But it always, always began with Balky. That was always the root of the issue. With that key element out of the Jaguars organization, there can always be hope, you know, you can always have hope that the cons will stumble upon a good coach candidate or accident, but with Balky it was to me they weren't winning the Super Bowl. We now at least have a small percentage of a chance to get back to winning a Super Bowl, and I can't wait to have the discussion about. You know what's up ahead.
Speaker 1:Right, we will definitely look forward in terms of what we expect or what we want to see, but we will be doing some recapping here over the course of the episode because, you know, a lot of things happened in order for us to get to this point. You know, obviously, for our last episode was, I mean, about a month ago, when the season ended. We're about to have the championship games this weekend and we were just once again waiting to see how all of this played out. And there were reports out there that Shad Khan would move on from Trent Baalke for the right candidate. And then we got reports about move on from Ben from Trent Balky for the right candidate, you know. And then we got reports about Ben Johnson interviewing with them and not really getting any assurances that there'd be any changes. Just so much has happened since we put out an episode on January 8th, so it's only been about two weeks actually. So, which is crazy that we're a couple of weeks away from the Superbowl. But yeah, we're going to get into all of that here. So thank you all so much for being here with us.
Speaker 1:The last episode did very well in terms of downloads. So, jay, it's crazy, liam Cohen may have saved the podcast. Right, we were sitting here a couple weeks ago talking about man. We don't even know if we want to do touchdown chat bars anymore. In its current iteration, it might morph into something else. Liam Cohen, along with Frank Gore back a couple years ago these two guys may have saved the touchdown Jaguars podcast and any future iteration of this show that might come to be in the future yeah, not just Liam man.
Speaker 2:Ben Johnson played a role in this. Maybe even Byron left, which you know he had a similar situation, or you know, like I guess the reports are mixed on like what happened there. You know he's even said that he wasn't necessarily offered the job. But I mean, I don't want to speak for Byron, but if I were him I probably wouldn't have signed off on bulky either and probably would have asked for my own GM. So I'm sure the discussions would have gotten to that if they didn't right.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, man, as you said, liam Cohen man, like he belongs in that category that we've discussed with Frank Gore, where we need to build in the new stadium, build a statue of him in like a Hall of Fame, like section of the stadium. So that's the next agenda Get a Liam Cohen statue put in the Jaguars stadium. Whether he's our coach or not, he could still end up being our coach. You know he hadn't signed the paperwork. Not that signing the paperwork matters, because you know offensive coordinators are already signed when they go to a new team anyway, so that I don't know that that would matter. But uh, yeah, whether he's the coach or not, the next agenda is to get that liam cohen statue in the new stadium, as he has relieved us and alleviated the Jacksonville Jaguars of the. I guess the the chains of Trent Balky is how I will put it yeah, byron left.
Speaker 1:Way, I mean the word on Byron left, which was that he wanted Adrian Wilson as his GM, and I'm not going to get into that. Just Google Adrian Wilson and it's. We definitely dodged a bullet there when it comes to that hiring. But yeah, I mean all of the franchise ineptitude over the last few years. All of it can be tied back to Trent Baalke. You know, there's that thing that's like the six degrees of Kevin Bacon, like how many actors or people can you name before you get back to Kevin Bacon, who was kind of like the center of it. You don't even have to do six degrees, they can just go like one or two degrees and it's all traced back to Trampolki. So we're going to unpack all of this over the next hour or so for this episode. So let's get out of the way. Just some housekeeping. Of course, everything you need in terms of the Touchdown Jaguars podcast is in the Linktree link of the show notes. You'll find social media pages, a link to download the SeatGeek app. Use our promo code TouchdownJaguars all of that.
Speaker 1:Things are going to get pretty crazy here over the next couple of weeks, so you definitely want to keep up with myself, jay, and the podcast pages. We are most active on X as of right now, until Twitter. Why did I call it X? We're most active on Twitter. But, jay, let's kind of start back over the last couple of weeks, because here's some things that have happened. One, ben Johnson, went with the Chicago Bears right. Aaron Glenn, as of today, is being hired by the New York Jets. So another guy that was very, very high on our list, a guy that you have been banging the drum for forever you can look back at previous episodes of this podcast and any iteration, whether it be Believe in the Jaguars, jags Den, whatever it may be you have been banging the drum for a Mike Barganzi hire here in Jacksonville, tennessee scoops him up as their new general manager. So a lot of things, a lot of dominoes, have fallen over the course of the last few weeks.
Speaker 1:Now, obviously, this thing went a lot faster than I think a lot of us would, because we expected the Lions to be in the Super Bowl. I know I certainly did and maybe that was a little short-sighted of me because of all the injuries, but they had been able to overcome and figure that out over the course of the season. But I mean they ran into, obviously a buzzsaw in Jane Daniels. I think that's one of those instances where not having the week off and continuing to play with momentum really helped.
Speaker 1:All these things kind of happened over the last couple of weeks and you know, different names have been thrown out as far as leaders in the clubhouse for head coaches and everything like that, and Jay. Up until yesterday, the 21st, we figured Liam Cohen was going to be the head coach, offensive coordinator from Tampa Bay. He withdraws himself from the race. So before we get into looking ahead, I just kind of want to get your thoughts on the coaching landscape as it has shaped over the last couple of weeks, because it has been crazy, like take the actual football on the field out of it, which has also been pretty entertaining and pretty insane. But the coaching carousel moved a lot quicker than we thought it would because of the Lions being ousted in the second round.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean if well, I was about to say say, if I was a betting man. I am a betting man, I do put some money on games occasionally, like all of us do, right? But yeah, going into the Lions and Commanders game, you know I would have put money if I was going to put money on it, on the Lions winning that one, you know, just for the simple fact that they you know they had a young quarterback that they were going against and they had a little bit of risk because they had a week off. But then again, sometimes that hurts the team, right, having that week off. We've seen that with the Ravens in the past, right and other teams. So I don't know if that would have necessarily been a good thing for some teams, but I was really confident that the lions would win and you know we would probably end up having to wait on, you know, the ben johnson hire. And look, now that I'm thinking about it, phil, though, had they won the game, and that would have delayed the ben johnson hire. Maybe the bears didn't end up with them and maybe he's still on the table for us to get, but then again, that don't mean that Trent would be gone either. So I don't know. But yeah, all of that said man in terms of, yeah, the coaching carousel and landscape, yeah it's, they started to move very quickly Monday, you know, and well, probably Sunday. But on surface level it started to move really quickly on Monday, as we saw. You know, it'd take Ben Long to make a decision and the crazy part about Ben Johnson making his decision is he hadn't met with them. According to reports, he only met with them virtually. He hadn't met with them in person. So they hired this man without an in-person interview, which is, you know, crazy to say the least. And you know, typically, you know, you at least want to sit face to face with the guy before you do it. But I guess they were so blown away with what they saw in the Zoom conference that they went ahead and did it.
Speaker 2:Then, as you said, the Jets they flew in Aaron Glenn, aaron Glenn, and they also have been talking to Lance Newmark, the GM that used to be, or the fella he used to be, with the Lions front office. He's the assistant GM with the commanders right now. He has ties to the Lions coaches, so they've been trying to pair the Lions coaches with him in this search or whatever. They interviewed him too, and I think they were doing a second interview with him, so they've been moving fast on him. But they've settled in on Aaron Glenn. They had a long discussion with them, right? Woody Johnson and you know company, whoever else was part of that Jets group that interviewed him, you know he came back, thought about the decision a little bit. Aaron Glenn didn't take him long, took the deal. Now he will be the New York Jets head coach man.
Speaker 2:I just think, like, in overall, though, when looking at everything, yeah, this has been a crazy run in terms of the coaching carousel overall and how things have gone, because you know it just, and that's the NFL, though, phil, but a wrench was thrown in everything when the Lions lost.
Speaker 2:But again, that's the NFL for you, you have to be able to adapt on the go, because you never know what happened. Anybody can win on any given Sunday, and that's what happened, or any given Saturday, thursday or Monday, whatever the case may be, and that's what happened with the Lions is. You know they I don't want to say they underestimated Washington, but Washington came in a red hot. Cliff Kingsbury was dialing it up left and right. Who could be a guy we need to interview is well, down the road, cliff Kingsbury was dialing it up left and right and he just had their number on that day. You just have to be better than the team in front of you for one day, and they were at the right time, and now they're one step closer yeah, you gotta wonder if this takes place with Trent Baalke a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 1:Is Ben Johnson and his GM of choice about to sign on the dotted line with Jacksonville, right? So many of these things, so many of these what-ifs, and you know, I am obviously very frustrated today. I'm very excited because this finally happened, but like just so incredibly frustrated because I kind of like liken it to what went on is going on with the cowboys, right, like they got off to a late start because they couldn't figure out what they wanted to do with mike mccarthy and, uh, you know, all of that is just, like I said, frustrating is the word that's going to come up here a lot. So what about some other things? Jay, um, you know the mike barangazi of it all, um, over there, tennessee, and obviously right now, in terms of that team, you know they got the number one overall pick new general manager. So what are you? You know what kind of reaction did you had to them getting your guy.
Speaker 2:Oh, I absolutely hate it, man. And I hate it because the Titans are somewhat competent and the reason I bring that up is with the right GM, they can close the gap between them and the Jazz very quickly, if not within this season. So for them to get a guy who I praised a lot and I think will be a very good GM in Mike Borgunzi and the resources that's available to him, not like the number one overall pick so you might be looking at like a Shadur Sanders at quarterback or something like that, you know that is concerning, and a lot of this boils down to the Jaguars incompetence. Right, they could have been further ahead of the Titans by this point when they got born born Gunsey. But here we are just now firing their GM, and I even said this to Phil when they said that they were going to be hiring born Gunsey, I said that, yeah, we. That's all the more reason to get rid of Trent Balky, because when that man works his magic, he's no doubt. If Trent Balky is the GM for this team, he's going to catch us, and it likely wouldn't be due to necessarily the talent, because Trent was able to bring talent in here here and there.
Speaker 2:Well, no, I take that back Like I think Borgonzi would out-talent him in terms of talent acquisition. I guess that's hard to say because we never seen the man at work yet, but I think he would too. But it was just also because I don't think Mike Borgonzi is going to set his organization back from the standpoint of not having that level of seeing eye to eye with their head coach. That would make the transition as smooth as possible as well, meanwhile, whereas any coach that we would have hired would have had to always look over their shoulder and have a power struggle with Trent Baalke. That doesn't help a team at all. It's more than just putting together the talent. It's some other things that can hold you back too as well. We've seen plenty of super talented teams, by the way, feel not play to their expectations. So it's more than just the talent thing and a talent acquisition thing. No, it's about being in lockstep with each other and seeing eye to eye, which is something that was important in Ben Johnson's eyes and a lot of these other people's eyes as well.
Speaker 2:So, that being said, man, like it was disappointing to see them get him. It's even more disappointing now, now that we're looking at it in hindsight, phil, that we fired Trent Baalke. What? Two days after they hired him. If we would have just maybe waited, you know, or not waited, but if we would have started this process a little bit longer ago, we could have been one of the teams interviewing him as well, mike Brongunzi. So yeah, that's real disappointing from that standpoint, now that I'm reflecting on it is, you know, we got rid of Trent Baalke two days after Mike Brongunzi was off of the market. Mike, how disappointing is that. So, yeah, I share those sentiments with you when you say, like it's a frustrating process and still, but at the same time, again, there is a small ray of hope now that this team doesn't have Trent Balky, at least, at the end of the day, the end goal and the best result that was needed happened just a little bit late.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so let's get into it. The elephant in the room, what everybody is talking about here in Jacksonville and throughout the entire fan base the Jacksonville Jaguars finally, finally moved on from Trent Bulkey. A statement from ShotKhan came out here earlier today. Following several discussions with Trent Balky this week, we both arrived at the conclusion that is in our mutual best interest to respectfully separate effective immediately. Trent leaves us with my deepest appreciation for his efforts over the past five seasons. Ethan Wall will serve as interim general manager and play an important role with others as we continue the process of interviewing candidates to serve as our new head coach. I am deeply committed to building a winner here in Jacksonville and look forward to introducing a new head coach who will make that happen for our players and fans alike. So there it is. That news dropped a couple of hours ago. Here Once again, we're recording this about 6 pm on Wednesday and everybody's screaming from the rooftops about how excited they are and rightfully so, but also, at the same time, so many other analysts and also fans, you know, wondering why now, what took so long, you know when? I'm sure Shad Khan is able to identify people within the league that could tell him hey, this is going to hamper your coaching search if you keep this guy around, and I'm pretty sure we mentioned that a couple of weeks ago and he instead decided to proceed with Trent Balke because I don't know. He likes the way he talks, he likes the way that he dresses, he likes the way that he feeds him information, whatever it is, we will never know. Hopefully we will. Someday There'll be a documentary or something. But this decision comes a couple weeks too late. But, like you said, better late than never, I suppose. But initial reactions jay to this finally taking place. You know you've already touched on it, obviously a little bit, but trebolke has now gone into two franchises, essentially left them a mess. Now the niners, of course, have recovered and jury's still out on what will happen here. But this is just an incredible fumble of a process by shod khan and the organization to keep a guy around that within the league nobody wants to work with Right and you say no, we're going to go ahead and push forward and stay the course on this route.
Speaker 1:And if you listen to the last, you know the last episode. I told you as soon as this news broke, I called the ticket office immediately and canceled my season tickets. I'm still not going to go back. In case you guys are wondering, I'm still not going to go back. In case you guys are wondering, I'm still not calling them and say, hey about that, let's run it back. No, they've got to prove to me that they're going to win. Even if they get a competent GM and head coach in here, they've still got to prove that they can win in the field. It's a whole other story. So just take us back over the last couple hours. You know again, trent Baalke finally out as no longer the general manager of the Jacksonville Jaguars and we can begin the healing process, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the key right there is. We can begin the healing process. But what's real frustrating about it is this you know, before the search took place, right, reports say that Sean Conn was told that keeping Baalke would make the process harder and he did it anyway. That's what's frustrating about it. He did it anyway. He had people advising him right to go in this with a clean slate and find a GM and a head coach, as opposed to going into it with a GM looking for a head coach. And it cost them dearly and it probably, you know people say that. You know they don't believe that Sean Cunn gets embarrassed and this, that and the other, and I believe he does. But at the end of the day, the money he's raking in makes you feel better about that embarrassment.
Speaker 2:But I think what happened is like he just got tired of striking out on opportunities. Right, ben Johnson choosing the chicago bears over us, right, which that's a story in itself, because ben johnson is going to a situation he wanted to come to jacksonville. It was well known he wanted to come to jacksonville, right, and yet he passed on the opportunity to come to jacksonville and maybe even a place in jacksonville that was a little bit in terms of the city itself, a little bit more low-key than Chicago or Las Vegas, which is something that, like you know, a lot of people said he kind of wanted or have alluded to. But instead of coming to Jacksonville, he passed on the Jaguars, obviously because of Balky, and he's going into a situation this is what's eye-opening and it maybe this even opened up Khan's eyes, both Tony and shot. He's going into a situation where he is going in to a division where, with that he knows very well albeit, but it's one of the better divisions in football, right? He also made this decision, and another eye-opening thing that came out of it was choosing Caleb Williams over Trevor Lawrence, right? So that was another eye-opening thing that probably caught Khan's attention.
Speaker 2:But we shouldn't even got to that point because, again, you were advised before the draft to go, or before this search to go ahead fire balky, because it would cost you dearly. So what I said I'm saying all of this to say this it took for him to see ben johnson going to that situation, which isn't appeal as appealing as the jacksonville jaguar situation, and it's an uphill battle for ben johnson and he's willing to take that risk, by the way, as a first year head coach. It took him going to that situation for Khan to say like hey, ok, the people that advised me the first time around were right. And also, too, what kind of bugs me about this situation is that and we saw this in the Zoom conference with Khan and Balky is he basically alluded to not having enough of a ear to the ground or enough of a relationship with other people in the organization outside of Balky? Now, sure you know he mentioned Ethan Waugh is somebody he kind of leans on, which you know he'll be assisting with the GM search, and it's probably a few others. But obviously it's clear that he doesn't listen enough to the scouting department and how they maybe feel about Trent right, because you can't tell me they love the guy and others. You know others within the coaching staff and how they felt about Trent, although you ended up firing them, but it still would have been good to know how they felt about the relationship with Trent Baalke. So that just kind of shows me that he doesn't have enough of a understanding and connection with the rest of the fan base or the rest of the organization outside of Trent to understand that this guy was an issue.
Speaker 2:And then we go on to the Liam Cohen situation.
Speaker 2:I guess that was the, as they say, the straw that broke the camel's back right.
Speaker 2:They probably I mean you discussed this beforehand before recording they probably had the jet gassed up, they probably were feeling high and mighty about how the situation would go, but at the end of the day, trent Baalke was still the GM and that probably played a big role in him saying you know what, actually, I'll stay here where I am.
Speaker 2:Then that's when I realized, like OK, like I probably should have took the advice of whoever was advising me before this search to fire this guy, because I would be much further along and this would have been a much easier process than it is. So ultimately, man, what's really just frustrating about the whole situation is that shot khan put one person ahead and one person's situation ahead of the whole franchise, right, and it took this long for him to understand that nobody, nobody, not even you can, even owner. You can even argue that the owner's not even a person that should be put ahead of the franchise. Nobody should be prioritized or put ahead of the organization to the point where it hinders them like this. And yet nonetheless, he still hung on to Trent and it hindered the Jaguars in a very, very negative way and, uh, it's just sad to see it get to this point. But the man's gone now and we can begin the healing process yeah and again, as this.
Speaker 1:This does deserve like. We deserve to celebrate, like jaguar fans, we deserve to be happy about this, but it is just paired with so much frustration and just the lack of awareness from somebody who, like we said last or the last episode, who is obviously incredibly smart shotgun. You don't get to be where you are in terms of financial and professional success on accident and we said it last episode like if he ran his other businesses the same way he runs the Jacksonville Jaguars. There's no way he would be in the position that he is in now. So how did it get to this point where, after you know, liam Cohen made his decision and who knows what's going to happen with that now? We'll talk about that here in just a moment because I want to get your thoughts, jay.
Speaker 1:After losing out on Ben Johnson, liam Cohen turning it down, how did it take so long to get to this point? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Maybe things can turn around with the right guy, but I think you guys mentioned this in the spaces this morning. Jay, yeah, shod khan doesn't know enough about running a football team. So what would be like the worst case scenario here, moving forward in terms of like who the next general manager could be. I think we talked, like boogie was mentioning it in the in the group chat like keeping ethan waugh, like is appointing ethan waugh as the gm, because that's kind of how Trent Baalke stuck around right after Dave Caldwell, like you know, baalke was already in the building and he just got appointed that job, which, from the get, we knew was going to be a terrible idea. So like what would be? I don't think it would be a worse situation because Trent Baalke was the worst, but like what would be?
Speaker 2:either a, like a, you know, a, a lateral move or a move that just would not push the needle in terms of what comes next for that particular position yeah, that's the one, ethan waugh, I mean it, that it's always for me, even when we've had discussions of the possibility of trent being removed and a lot of people would joke like, well, he'll just promote Ethan, why? And I always say like, no, that's not. It, that's not. And that's why, if you always look at my tweets, why I have always carefully worded it as a clean sweep, and by clean I mean also within the front office, getting somebody that's not currently in the front office and I think I probably tweeted it exactly like that in the past as well, like getting somebody that's not currently in the front office. And look, this is nothing against Ethan Waugh. We don't even know the guy, we don't know a lot about the guy, but anybody who signs off on, you know, joining Trent Baalke and, look, it was probably the opportunity of a lifetime. But anybody who answered and was a yes man to Trent Baalke, or whatever the case may be, isn't going to cut it for me. You know what I'm saying, because you were part of the problem and you were part of the problem that didn't speak out as well. And we probably can come to that conclusion because, as Sean Conn said in the Zoom conference.
Speaker 2:Ethan is one of the people he also speaks to about football advice. So for Ethan to not say, hey, even though I'll be, trent Baalke was his boss, hey, I don't think Trent is the guy that you want leading this team, you know, because there's friction between him and the coaches leading this team. You know, because there's friction between him and the coaches and you know there was friction when he was with the San Francisco 49ers, him not speaking up and saying anything and just basically letting things go on as they are. He was part of the problem. So if he is named the GM, did you really get, did you make an upgrade there?
Speaker 2:You know, and who's who's to say maybe ethan is a better overall person and will be in more lockstep with the coaches. Be, um, better, just as a human being with the coaches and what have you? He probably could be. But again, going back to what I was saying, the fact that you didn't step up and speak up and discuss with shot the things that Trent was doing wrong and the connection he had with the coaching staff, the fact that you didn't step up and say anything tells me all I need to know about Ethan Waugh and that he shouldn't be the guy leading the way in terms of him being a GM heading forward. So that's one of them. You know, there was a point in time also, phil, where I thought that Tony Bocelli would be a good EVP, but after the things he said I'm not sure he's fit to be an EVP.
Speaker 1:Keep him away, keep him away. We can separate Tony the player and Tony the Jaguar legend from whatever he is now. But yeah, no, keep him away from the front office man. I don't want any part of it.
Speaker 2:Right, I agree. So that would be another bad scenario that wouldn't move the needle for me, you know, with him being the EVP Now look, granted, he doesn't have bulky blinders on anymore because the guy is gone. But again, just, it's all about what you said and what you did in the past. Sometimes, and especially in the recent past, just as I was saying for Ethan, the same can be applied for Tony Him having the blinders on for Balky when Balky was here and was the GM, and just not. And me and you discussed this in the last podcast, in the last episode, phil, and not calling it like it is right.
Speaker 2:If there is anybody that deserves to speak their mind to Sean Cunn and call it like it is on this planet, one of those people is Tony Bocelli, because he has spent blood, sweat and tears and he's put blood, sweat and tears onto the field as a player he was here before Sean was here and tears onto the field as a player. He was here before Shaw was here. If it's anybody who deserves to speak their mind and speak the truth and say what needs to be said to get this franchise fixed and not be held against them, it's Tony Bocelli. But nonetheless, he was basically a bootlicker to Balki in the process, balky in the process. But I think Bocelli, out of anybody, is a guy that could have gone to Shaw and let him know. This guy's probably not who you want to lead your franchise and Shaw not holding it against him, or I guess you could be scared of losing your job, whatever the case may be if you're Tony Bocelli. But you know, if it's anybody that deserves to speak truths about what's going on with this franchise to shot Cullen is absolutely Tony Bocelli and you know shot. I would think shot will respect that being that, as I said, tony has put blood, sweat and tears into this team. So those are two bad scenarios.
Speaker 2:Right there for me is Ethan Waugh and the Tony Bocelli situation. So I just hope you know shot and it is shot come. But I just hope that shot doesn't have it in his mind and his mind made up like we'll just promote Ethan Waugh up to the GM position Because again, he was a part of the problem. He was part of Balky's team and did nothing to fix it. So we'll see in time, we'll tell and you know, hopefully we'll see how they go about in the head coach search. I don't know if they'll get a coach. Then they'll look for a GM or they'll just reset everything after they speak with Sala and Coach Graham and they'll start a GM search and then, like, maybe circle around two coaches and that'll give them more time to maybe even like include Joe Brady in the mix for a second interview too. We'll see a lot of questions need to be answered after this point heading forward yeah, I agree, definitely to completely clean house.
Speaker 1:That's what needs to happen. Like we're so close. Like just go ahead and finish off the process, you know what I mean. Like just go ahead and find the two guys that are going to be in lockstep, that are going to work together to to bring this thing in your turn, to turn this thing around in a division that, like you said, is very winnable, like I, I kind of agree. Like, so shout out again to Jacob this morning in the in the spaces Like I don't know if Ben Johnson's going to work out of it as a head coach.
Speaker 1:I am definitely much more. I feel like Aaron Glenn will probably, as a head coach, will probably be a little bit more successful. But like you're telling me that Ben Johnson couldn't have cooked something up with Trevor Lawrence, btj, those two running backs like we've talked about in the past. Like that's why he probably was legitimately interested in this job. Right, and because of the ineptitude of the, you know, starting at the very top, we missed out on him, missed out on Aaron Glenn, possibly Liam Cohen. We will see what happens next.
Speaker 1:But, yeah, just go ahead and clean the whole cabinet and get two people in here, starting from the top, that are going to work together to bring in the staff that they want, you know. So hopefully that's what we'll see happen, you know you already alluded to it there a little bit jay, like what's going to happen first, you know, do they bring in the coach first in the gm? Is liam cohen now back in the mix, do you think? You know I think I saw Dilla tweeting about it like there's probably already conversations happening now what happens with this search? Because you know we're, you know Robert Sala is about to come in for a face-to-face. Like what does this mean? Are they waiting on? Like a Joe Brady, cliff Kingsbury, you know, kellen Moore? Like, are these guys now in the mix, as they have two positions to fill now instead?
Speaker 2:of just one. Yeah, the others should be in the mix because for the simple fact that um, I think it was, I forgot what reporter it was that revealed this but balky was in on the interview, so he was a part of the interview process. Right Now that he's gone, you should absolutely include others. Therefore, you're casting in a wide net. What's the point in firing Balky if you don't cast a wide net, as opposed to, like, maybe, guys that he was considering, for the simple fact that Cohen and Ben Johnson obviously didn't want him there. Those probably weren't his top preferences. But the guys that are remaining, for example, robert Saleh and Patrick Graham who's to say those aren't top bulky choices. So you don't have to lock yourself in to just solely bulky choices.
Speaker 2:Now that he's gone, you can cast a wider net and now that you know Ethan Wise, the assistant or the interim GM, you know you can maybe go into the situation with a little bit more of an open mind of who the coach could be. That being said, yeah, I mean I really hope that. I don't want to say that they reset it entirely. Go ahead and do your interviews with Graham and your second interviews with Graham and Sala, but I do hope that it resets it in the sense that they'll, you know, wait for Cliff Kingsbury and you know, wait for Joe Brady when he's eligible to do an interview as well. But you know, time will tell on this. And uh, what was your other question? It was another key question you had put in there that was basically it.
Speaker 1:Like, are they waiting on some of these other candidates? Like, do you, uh, what does this mean for the interviews you already had, which you you just answered? And, uh, you know, do they try and get the gm first or do they do the head coach first? Like, what does this do for the, the timing, essentially, and also too, yeah, you, yeah, you mentioned Liam Cohen.
Speaker 2:Do they circle back around?
Speaker 2:That's right that was the big one. Yeah, so yeah with Liam. Yes, absolutely you do. And the reason you do it too is because, like, really, you were the only team that he was on the radar for. Like, nobody else interviewed him which somebody could see. You know some folks would say that's a red flag. If somebody could see, you know, some folks would say that's a red flag. But circle back around to that. You know he hasn't signed a contract Not that that matters for the upgrade and pay to be the offensive coordinator for at least one more season or whatever the case may be. But yeah, circle back around to it.
Speaker 2:Because now Liam Cohen is well aware that you know Trent Baalke is gone, and not only that. You know Liam Cohen is in a situation where he understands like I think we all understand now, especially the coaches the unique thing about this is now we all understand that Shaq Khan is just simply lost in this situation. So Liam Cohen now knows right that and it shouldn't fall on him. This is how disjointed and ridiculous this coaching search is. He now knows that, like I might have to help if they hire a coach first, or hire me first, I might have to help them find a GM, but also, at the same time, who's been briefing him on not joining the Jacksonville Jaguars? A bunch of executives in the Bucs front office. So he's been establishing communication with these executives and whatnot. So he basically has been speaking with people that he can bring in with him to be the GM. Again. That shouldn't fall on him. That's a lot to ask of a coach, especially a first-year head coach. But hey, you've been speaking with these people anyway about if you will take the job, or you should take the job with the Jaguars and not Now.
Speaker 2:The conversation is now do one of y'all want to come with me? You know, can one of you help guide me on this process, whether that's Mike Greenberg, obviously, john Spitek, I think he's going to join the Raiders, so he'll be their GM, so he'll be gone. But yeah, the conversation now becomes hey, mike, do you want to come with me to Jacksonville? You know I would definitely suggest you in the second interview with Shahid Khan as a guy to interview and you know, like you would be my lot for being a GM and you know we could turn this thing around, like the books, like we have with the books.
Speaker 2:So I think that makes a more, much more interesting conversation for the coaches that they want to interview now, because now those coaches feel will have an added job now to. To answer your question, will they feel GM first and then go to a head coach? I think, just in how disjointed the Cons have been and how they've operated, with them already putting effort into a coaching search, I think they'll continue with that and then fill out the GM role. I mean, what's the point in keeping Ethan Wise, the interim, you know, if you're not going to continue to interview coaches? So I think like they'll probably look for a coach first, which is a little bit backwards, but they only have themselves to blame. They'll look for a coach first and then they'll surf around to a GM situation after that.
Speaker 1:Well, as we kind of wrap up this conversation here, jay, you know if you want to throw out some names, obviously we had our episode earlier in the year as far as GM candidates and head coaching candidates. So who's left out there now that they kind of have to reset and essentially start from scratch in terms of, you know, the highest position that they need to fill? And you want to throw out some names before we wrap up this episode? And you know, obviously we've mentioned them a few of them here right now. Do you have a new ranking now that some of those guys are off the list? Obviously, vrabel was high on our list, ben Johnson, aaron Glenn, some of these other guys. What does that list look like now if you were to be put in charge of where they should look next?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like many of my guys from our list earlier, feel that we made are gone. Right, they've taken jobs and, in the case of some of them, some of them don't look as good as they once did. Like Bobby Sloic, I had him pretty high on my list. Now it's like, uh, you know, he's kind of falling down on some people's list. I mean, he still does have the connection to the Shanahan tree, so it's not like the guy has lost the ability to coach it. You know it could more so be. His quarterback isn't performing like he once did as a rookie, so that could be one thing. So still, nonetheless, I kind of would pass on Slug right now.
Speaker 2:Todd Munkin was on that list, right, I wouldn't mind, you know, doing a second interview with Todd Munkin. I know like the big thing with him is, you know, doing a second interview with Todd Monk, and I know like the big thing with him is, you know, he's up there in age, so you know he's closer to 60. But nonetheless, though, just what he's been able to do with the personnel that he had, whether it was in Georgia or whatever the case may be, he's one of those guys that it's like hey, whatever you got, we'll cater the scheme to them, them we'll make it work and we'll have success doing it right. So he's just had this wide array of different personnel and each time right, he has been able to make great offenses out of that. And also he just has a connection with the jazz. He used to be a coach with them under jack del rio.
Speaker 2:But I would definitely say the list has changed in the sense that you know, we didn't even have Cohen on the list that we made right. He was a guy that just kind of came out of nowhere, and rightfully so. And you know that's not a bad thing because he's much like Monken. He's done the best he could with what he has and that's why he's now risen to the top of my list. So I would put him at the top of the list and then I would probably put, like Todd Munkin as that second guy, or well, no, no, we uh Joe Brady as that second guy, then Munkin as the third, because I do think we still should go with the offensive guy, and it's even easier to do now that Aaron Glenn is off of the list.
Speaker 2:I'm not opposed to Robert Sala, I just keep getting hung up on who would he bring as the offensive coordinator, right? So that's just the only thing with him. But who's to say with the second chance he won't have success? Because that was a pretty crappy situation with the Jets. You know him having to take in Aaron Rodgers Woody Johnson is kind of a meddlesome owner who's to say he won't have success with the right offensive hire, that is, with the Jacksonville Jaguars? So you know he will be somewhere on my list, not at the top or top two. I would definitely look at some offensive mind over him. But now that Balky's gone and now that it's a kind of a clean sweep, yeah, I would be OK with him with the right officer coordinator and of course, the right GM as well. But those are the two key things with him.
Speaker 1:What about the name that I threw out in the spaces this morning, jay? In terms of Mike McCarthy, I mentioned this that I know that would not necessarily be a needle mover and some people might think it's a retread, and you had a good response to that, so I'll have you echo that here in a moment. But I mean to go into Dallas and have a owner like Jerry Jones, who is just constantly wants to be the center of attention, makes it incredibly difficult for anybody to do their job. I mean, we're talking about dating back to the 90s, about how difficult it has been to work with Jerry Jones and to come out and have three straight 12 win seasons. Obviously, what happened last year you know this past season out of his hands, injuries depleted that team and also Jerry Jones running. You know that team. As far as you know the contracts that he did to get out there CeeDee Lamb, dak Prescott an absolute mess.
Speaker 1:I said this when they you know this when the Cowboys decided to move on to him, I said that the Jaguars should call Mike McCarthy. So what do you think about that guy? Because I think this is a very similar situation to Chicago, where they need a proven franchise leader, like somebody that can come in and knows how to do things correctly and put together a culture. That's the culture center. That's what they need, and I threw Mike McCarthy's name out there. I know a lot of people wouldn't be incredibly excited about that, but I think it's something they should consider.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you mentioned him in the space and at that time Balky was hired, right. So my big thing that I was echoing in the space was like, yeah, mike McCarthy strikes me as a guy, being that he will be coming from Dallas Cowboys and dealing with the situation he dealt with there and Jerry, he would be a guy that I feel like would come to the Jaguars organization and would speak up for himself, kind of like Trent, not Trent, but Doug didn't do right, not at least not enough, and that's part of why Doug is not here. Right, doug wanted an offensive lineman or offensive lineman last offseason and what Trent did was went out there and got him a 34 year old Mitch Morse, right? That's not. I don't think that's necessarily what Doug had in mind when he was saying we need to fix this offensive line. He was probably saying we need to get younger, we need to get stronger, right? So anyway, I said all of that to say this he was a guy that I thought would have Going through all of the hoops and the hurdles to get the personnel needed, whereas Doug wasn't able to and didn't. Right, I think he would be a guy that would. You know, mike McCarthy we're talking about here would be a guy that would go in to get into shotguns here and say like, hey, you know, trent wants to draft this guy, but I want to draft this guy and I want to help the offense Right, and I want to do what's best for Trevor Lawrence, right, and I think he would be one of those guys that would be able to kind of sway shotgun a little bit better and have a better chance to sway shotgun better than any of the other coaches we had when they've had these discussions of a situation where it's Trent versus Doug or Trent versus the coaches, right. So there's that, and then also two. Something I want to add to that Phil is another name that came to mind. I tweeted about it that kind of fits that mold of McCarthy.
Speaker 2:Pete Carroll right, we didn't discuss him in the space. Now why not maybe circle back to him? Because Trent Baalke is gone? Right, you obviously might need somebody with experience and also you obviously might need somebody who can help you with the GM search. If you're going to hire the head coach first, what about him? Right, and you still can maybe even go with your plans to bring in Salah Salah, who you know was under.
Speaker 2:Pete Carroll could be his defensive coordinator. You have your head coaching waiting. That's something that you've thrown out there right, and you have the present and the future taken care of. And you also have a guy, pete Carroll, as I just mentioned, that can help shot Cunningham from a standpoint of getting that GM search done. So now Pete Carroll becomes an intriguing name, in my opinion, to look for heading forward. That's not me saying I have a source or anything on it, that's just a guy that I would look for. Granted that the Jaguars have gone through this disjointed process and have fired Balki late, now you kind of need a Pete Carroll like presence to help you through the way.
Speaker 1:I agree. Yeah, pete Carroll would be a slam dunk hire. There are rumors out there that the Niners have discussed Pete Carroll as their potential defensive coordinator if Robert Sala doesn't come throughC. And then you know Pete Carroll knows enough people within his coaching tree and within the league that he could bring in the competent and the correct offensive coordinator and then, like you said, assist with this GM search. And then you could even make it a situation where because I know a lot of people are concerned that Pete Carroll is obviously a little bit older but you could make it so that you know you have a Robert Sala as a coach in waiting or whoever the offensive coordinator is. Like that that is, I think, would be an excellent situation, and that is something that I think would make me reconsider in terms of financially. I would be like OK, now I can buy back in, now I can look into maybe getting the season tickets again. Maybe getting the season tickets again, right, because as of right now and as of you know, even a month ago, it's a bad financial decision for me and a bunch of other people, in my opinion, to give their hard earned money to this team that again has not shown to be serious about winning. So I would. I would love Pete Carroll and that circumstance that you just laid out here, jay. So, yeah, those are some names that I think I'd be very excited to hear about over the next couple of weeks, including the Joe Brady's.
Speaker 1:I still don't know about Cliff Kingsbury. I mean I know a lot of people were saying like, hey, look at Cliff Kingsbury, when you give him a quarterback, they can see over the line of scrimmage. Brisberry, when you give him a quarterback, that can see over the line of scrimmage. You know, like, kyler murray, you know obviously wasn't great and still isn't great over there in arizona, but I mean, I just think he's probably having too much of a great time with jayden daniels and what they're building over there. You know, like what a great story they have been.
Speaker 1:I mean, can you imagine? I can't imagine, actually I can't imagine a situation in which we see Jayden Daniels and the commanders in the Super Bowl in a couple of weeks. That is not out of the realm of possibility. The way that they played, the way that they have been playing throughout the entire playoffs. They could do it, man, they could definitely do it.
Speaker 1:But obviously there is so much that is going to happen over the course of the next few weeks, of the next few weeks, jay, I'm sure we could probably see ourselves recording more so on a weekly basis once this starts to shape out, which is crazy, because we had essentially been planning for, like, the draft and then who knows what was going to happen with this podcast. Now there is still a lot of opportunity for ShotKon to F this up, but hopefully that's not going to be the case and we have a little bit of juice here on the Touchdown ChatWars podcast, a little bit of a rejuvenation. So we'll see what happens. But anything else you want to mention before we wrap up this impromptu episode you know, go out there and celebrate Jacksonville, go out there and celebrate that we finally got Trambolki out, but also continue to hold the franchise accountable.
Speaker 1:There is still a lot of work to be done and we all deserve better, All of us, all the fans, all the people that bust their ass in terms of writing for this team. I know we don't normally curse on this podcast, but I felt like it was necessary. All the people that work really hard covering this team, like, hold the team accountable, hold ShotKhan accountable, because there is a realm and a world in which this is a quick turnaround because of the pieces that are here. So, jay, anything else you want to mention before we get out of here and patiently, impatiently, whatever it may be, wait to see what happens next.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, you really bring up a great point Now. It kind of brings life to the situation from a standpoint. Now I can cover the draft Like I hadn't even been watching draft prospects, right, because I just didn't want to deal with another Trent Baalke draft. You know, and look, still, they could still keep Ethan, but still nonetheless, you know, now that opens up a reason to look into draft prospects, right, we don't have Michigan prospects like blacklisted, basically, right, and it opens up this potential excitement of you know, from the coaching perspective, right, of who could these coaches bring in as their offensive and defensive coordinator? Man, so yeah, man, it's, it's a renewed excitement.
Speaker 2:But, as you said, we still do need to hold the team accountable and stay on them about making the right decisions and not further making this a further disjointed process than it already has been. Right, you already got rid of the biggest problem. All right, let's get on this team and then stay on them about running this like a professional NFL franchise. Right, let's have a professional looking interview process, even if that includes resetting things and doing it the right way getting a GM first and getting a coach later, whatever the case may be, if you want to continue with the coaches. Still, that's fine as well, but look like professionals in the process, right? All right, let's knock out this stuff. Man Shotgun is on past a decade of being an the rest of this interview process. So that's what I'm hoping for, is it? And that we don't look further disjointed than we already have been. And yeah, we'll see where it leads us and what what we end up with in terms of a coach and maybe a GM.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're going to want to make sure you keep up with the Touchdown Jaguars podcast for everything that you need to know. We will obviously be keeping a very, very close eye on this as we enter a new era of Jaguar football. It's crazy. Like you know, we're on the second contract for Trevor Lawrence. Like that was the new era. Trevor Lawrence was the new era, right, and now he's having to deal with all this ineptitude with josh hines, allen and tyson campbell and evan ingram and brian thomas jr and all these guys that work so hard and and love this team and love these fans. So hopefully we can get this right because once again, like there is an opportunity here in a division that is weakened, in a division that has tennessee picking number one and the colts can't figure everything out and a Houston team although you know I'm going to give credit where credit is due like two divisional round appearances in two years. That's nothing to scoff about. They also ran into the referees and the Kansas City Chiefs, much like we did a couple of years ago. So there is an opportunity for us to be competitive very quickly if they make the right decisions. They also have a ton of cap space coming up here, you know. So, hey, we can, we can get this done, jaguar fans. So we are going to be cautiously optimistic, but also, like we said, continue to hold the team accountable and voice your opinion. Get out there, let the team know, let them know with your words, let them know with your money all of that. But, folks, thank you so much for joining us on the touchdown jaguars podcast continuing for now as we get into the next, hopefully, 100 episodes of this show.
Speaker 1:This is episode 107, so thank you all for walking with us once again, link tree link. In the show notes of the episode you'll find everything that you need the social media pages for myself, j, jay, as well as the podcast. Keep up with us over on Twitter and we'll continue to again give you everything that you need for this GM and head coach search. But, folks, that is my cohost, james Johnson. I am Phil Smith. See you very, very soon. Don't forget to tune into touchdown Jaguars for each and every Jaguar touchdown, and we'll see you next time. Folks, take care, stay warm and be safe.