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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 124: Jaguars/49ers Week 4 Analysis - Jags Stun Niners on a West Coast Trip
Two straight wins change more than the standings; they change how we carry ourselves. The Jags went over to the West Coast and handled business against a beat up 49ers team that is still a very respectable unit. They did this by matching San Francisco’s physical edge, turning special teams into a weapon, and playing complimentary football in the end.
With a lot to unpack, we discussed multiple topics after the Jags 26-21 victory, including the following talking points:
• Devin Lloyd’s all-field surge and leadership
• Liam Coen’s culture-setting moment with Robert Saleh
• Anthony Campanile and Co. bullying the 49ers offensive line
• Parker Washington’s game-changing punt return and special teams swing
• Trevor Lawrence's mental miscues
• The ongoing issue with penalties
• What do we need to see Monday vs. KC
• Are the Jags back?
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James Johnson and Phil Barrera bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Jaguars podcast. Here your hosts, James Johnson and Phil Smith.
SPEAKER_02:Hey everyone, welcome back to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your co-host, Phil Barrera, joined as always by your other co-host, James Johnson and Jay. For the second straight week, we are recording here on a victory Monday here for the podcast. It is a very nice and unfamiliar feeling, especially over the last couple of years, but we will certainly take it. And uh, you know, while we um while uh Liam Cohen, of course, wants to you know wants people to keep his name out of other people's mouths, uh we certainly want to make sure people are saying touchdown Jaguars around here and listening to the podcast. So we very much appreciate the support we've gotten so far. But uh Jay, hey, the Jacksonville Jaguars, three and one, tied for first place in the AFC South. And uh, you know, just a couple weeks ago when we did our season preview episode, we said, hey, if they come out of this stretch of the first four games, two and two, we're pretty happy. Uh lo and behold, they're over there two games over 500 and very much in the mix and winning games that they probably would have lost in the past. So we'll certainly take that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. It again, the team um in a lot of ways feels night and day different than the teams of the past. Going over there on the West Coast and just flat out looking prepared. We never look prepared on the West Coast, right? So that's a uh change that I took note of here, and we'll kind of discuss that later, man. But yeah, man, it feels great to be talking about a win, especially against a team that um, you know, to a degree we have respect for until they tried our coach, right? But um, you know, like we can't I'll put it this way we came into the game with a great deal of respect for the 49ers, you know, like you hadn't heard a bad word from you and I, at least from the 49ers, and we praised him in the past and Kyle Shanahan and company, and even Robert Sala. We even kind of discussed him when we were going through our head coaching search, and uh, of course, we will be talking about him again today for obvious reasons. But yeah, man, very excited to discuss what transpired. Wasn't able to see the game initially like I wanted to because I was at work, so it was kind of paying attention to that here here and there, and then my job. So I wasn't able to see it, but then I went back and watched the condensed version. Uh, so albeit I did see a quick version of it, I still gotta process some stuff, but hey, we'll roll with the punches. That's what podcasting is all about. And um, as I said, I've seen enough of it, and yeah, can't wait to uh get these takes off.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, plenty to talk about in what was a dominant performance in multiple phases of the game uh against the San Francisco 49ers, a team that I think over the last few years has certainly built up a um you know a bully mentality when you know, talking about physicality when it comes to that team. But Jacksonville went in there and played kind of a brand of 49ers football that we have seen in the past, and they did it very, very well. Plenty to discuss here this evening, Jay, as we uh uh break down the Jaguars win and eagerly await Monday night football. So yeah, but before we jump into it, uh once again, if you want to make sure you keep up with everything Touchdown Jaguars related, make sure you check the Link Tree link in the show notes of this and every single episode. And if you're looking for tickets for Monday night, make sure you head on over to SeatGeek. Use our promo code Touchdown Jaguars, and all of you first-time buyers over on uh SeatGeek can save$20 off your first purchase courtesy of the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. But yeah, Jay, uh, once again, Jacksonville goes into San Francisco and wins 26 to 21. It was a third straight or fourth straight game where the Jaguars had three or more turnovers. And uh, you know, boy, there are some crazy standouts when it comes to these performances. Devin Lloyd obviously being front and center uh with his interceptions as well as just being all over the ball. Um, but we happen to start here with uh what was making the rounds after the game, and that of course was the video of Liam Cohen and Robert Sala. And Liam Cohen in very short words just saying, Keep my name out of your mouth. And for those of you that don't know, if you were maybe living under a rock or just weren't paying attention, Robert Sala was in uh press conferences during the week leading up to the game saying that Liam Cohen and his staff have a way of legally stealing offensive signs or defensive signs, and uh Kyle Shanahan kind of doubled down on that throughout the week. Certainly didn't do anything to uh to hush those claims. And uh again, the Jaguars came into San Francisco and punched them in the mouth. So after the game, Liam Cohen. It definitely seemed like Robert Salah was trying to go up and shake his hand, and Liam Cohen was having none of it. And I want to shout out Wig here because I I want to um repeat a lot of what he was saying over on Locked On Jaguars, where you know the thing that really irritated me about this whole Robert Sala thing, especially afterwards, is like stand-on business, man. Like he it feels like he broke some sort of like there was like a coach's code, you know what I mean? And this really did just reek of someone who was very bitter that he didn't get the Jacksonville Jaguars coaching job. You know, he we you mentioned it before we got started. He was one of the guys that was that was in the running, he's probably one of the finalists before uh you know the whole thing happened with Liam Cohen. And um, and I think he's certainly pretty salty about that. You know, things ended poorly in New York and he was forced out of there. And uh I'm sure he wants to be a head coach again, probably feels like he should be a head coach in the NFL. Uh, but you know what? You didn't get the job. And uh yeah, I'm glad that he didn't get the job here in Jacksonville because we have a coach now who I think really embodies the fan base. I mean, Jacksonville has been the the laughing stock of the league essentially you know for years. And people use Jacksonville as a very easy target, and I think Liam Cohen and James Gladstone and Tony Biselli and everybody in there now are they've just had enough of it. And performances like this and and actions like this, you know, and and Wig said this too. No one's gonna fight on the field, right? That's not gonna happen as far as coaches go. But Liam Cohen's like, hey, well, you know what? This is my this is my team now. This is, you know, we love this city. We love we're gonna embrace the fans and we're gonna stand up for ourselves, and I think that's a great sign. So, you know, Robert Salah, uh, and then oh yeah, and then Mike uh Kyle Shanahan after the game saying, you know, maybe he shouldn't be so sensitive. You know what, maybe your team shouldn't be so sensitive and you would have won the football game. Maybe if you guys didn't play so soft and and Brock Purdy, your dork of a quarterback, didn't throw and turn the ball over, or you didn't give us, you didn't, you know, give us a bunch of uh turnovers. Maybe, you know, maybe maybe your team needs to be a little less sensitive. But I don't know, Jay. Uh, how do you feel about all of this? And then, you know, of course we were irritated about it going into the game, and then we see the footage of uh of Liam Cohen showing that fire and just uh you know sticking up for himself, which I think is great. So what was your uh what were your initial thoughts when that video came out?
SPEAKER_00:Um I think like now that I've had the time to process it, I think what this was a matter of is Liam Cohen understands that he is a mouthpiece for the Jacksonville Jaguars organization and for the city. And he also understands, and we kind of talked about this when we were looking for a coach, like what kind of front office culture would we have? What would be our identity, not just on the field, but what would be our identity as an organization? And the one thing that you kept hearing in the reports that the Jaguars wanted to be was a coach-centric team. You remember we kept hearing that word a lot, coach-centric team. And I think when Liam got the job, he understood that, right? I mean, for crying out loud, we hired him before we hired a GM. If that doesn't scream coach-centric, I don't know what does, right? But he understands that this is a coach-centric team and that he's a mouthpiece for not only the team, but also for Duval and the 904 and so on and so forth. And kind of going to what you were saying, we've been a laughing stock for a long time. And if you're gonna be the mouthpiece of a coach-centric team, you need to establish that early, you know, in your career. Early in the here we are, what four games into his career, he's establishing in that um against a 49ers team, which this is another thing. Liam understanding the situation, he's a smart dude. What team to better have this situation, you know, in terms of meeting somebody on the field and having words with them, than an organization that bullies people, like you said, Phil, like the San Francisco 49ers. So that's him understanding like this is the perfect team for me to get my you know what off, basically. The 49ers, a team who has traditionally beat up on us. And you know, I did the research and I mentioned it on Twitter, Phil, uh under Balkey, we struggled mightily against the 49ers. We played them twice in his tenure. That was his former team, by the way. They beat us by a score of 64 to 13. And in those matches, bro, we and you know, we seen the film of them, both of them. We were just outclassed, right? And every time we ended up playing them, it felt like we left those games saying, like, that's what we want to be. We want to be a bully to other teams. And here we are, we bullied them, like ran the ball almost with ease on them. And um, you know, we just matched their physicality. Well, we outmatched their physicality if we're being honest about it. So it's just Liam understanding that we're a coach-centric organization now. He needs to establish that and and speak up for the 904 and the team and be that mouthpiece for the team. And he saw the perfect opportunity to do it against a team with tradition, physicality, and a team. Also, too, part of this is he has history with the 49ers, right? The McVay tree, which Shanahan is kind of a part of, too, by the way. But the McVay tree has history with facing that 49ers tree, like the current 49ers tree of Shanahan, Robert Sala. Um, I guess you could put Gus Bradley in there now because he's the assistant head coach, and you know, Robert Salah's from his tree, technically. So they have history from years and years of battling each other. So it's probably some bad blood from then, too, as well, like the Rams and the 49ers as well. So that it can go back as far as that as well. And you mentioned the other part of it too. For Robert to say something like that, you know, which you know it didn't bother me like a lot, but I can see why a coach would take offense to it, right? Um for him to say something like that, you gotta think like it was something that sparked him to say that. Because typically in press conferences, you don't hear coaches mention that, right? You know, like that's not something you typically, it's like, hey, you know, we got a good team that we're playing in front of us, um, they played hard, so on and so forth. A lot of coach speak. Never do you hear this, you know, whole thing about they steal signals, this, that, and the other. But a part of it, you have to feel like for him to mention something like that, has to be that they were both candidates for this Jags job in the end. You know, a lot of people will say Salah was kind of in the his name was in the the hat, so to speak, because uh of Trent Balkey, obviously. And Trent Balkey just has to find whoever would agree to join the team with him being a GM. So it's not like he had a lot of options out there, or some people can even say that Salah he has a good relationship with the cons too, which there's that too. Um, but at the end of the day, Liam Cohen wowed, you know, wowed them even more so than Salah did. He got the job. But I think that's part of it too, Phil. I think for him to mention something and take a little slight like that, which again to me it didn't bother me that much, but I can see if I was a head coach, it probably would have triggered me as a head coach. Um, for him to mention something like that, it has to be more to it um than we're looking at. And when you look at their history, it it most likely is that they were both they they both had their names in the hat for the job.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it just reeks of that and uh you know bitterness, and um, like like I said, you know, Robert Salah, I'm sure still uh the whole the way that things ended with the Jets and Aaron Rodgers essentially, you know, strong arming him out of the out of that job, and um, I'm sure also played into it. But uh, you know what? At the end of the day, the Jacksonville Jaguars won the game, and Robert Sala ended up on Jaguar Twitter's hate list. So uh enjoy that as well as Kyle Shanahan. Um and yeah, Jay, as far as like the struggles against the Niners, they brought it up on the broadcast. Like we had they had been we we had always struggled against the San Francisco 49ers, which is why we circled some of these West Coast trips as probable losses. But um, yeah, they came in, and you know the argument can be made. The score should have been uh, you know, a lot um a lot a lot or the the deficit should have been a lot wider when it came down to the end of the game. But uh yeah, there are plenty of standouts here. Jay Travis Etienne had himself another solid game, 19 carries, 124 yards, and a touchdown. Uh we saw Parker Washington get the punt return uh that was much needed at the time as you kind of felt like momentum was swinging back in the way of the San Francisco 49ers. And then the defense, man, forcing the turnovers, and then Devin Lloyd continuing to be all over the field, Jay. Uh, we talked about the defensive line, also had themselves a really solid day. Devon Hamilton, um, those guys inside. Uh Josh Hines Allen was bullying Trent Armstrong Trent uh Trent Williams throughout the entire day. Um, and then of course, you know, one thing we are awaiting news on. I believe he went to go see a specialist today is the the status of Trayvon Walker because he has been a big, as big of a um force multiplier on the defense as anybody else here this season. So we current you know certainly um hope to hear good news on that front. But Jay, what did you want to point out as far as individual performances, uh performances by an entire unit, whatever you would like to start? Um, because yeah, there was a lot to like about the performance on Sunday.
SPEAKER_00:So the first one is just um the elite level that Devin Lloyd is playing at, man. And um, you know, he's been the conversation of a lot of Jags talk on Twitter. You know, some people saying we should have picked up the fifth-year option, and some people are like, hey, you know, stay on that side with Devin Lloyd. But look, man, I'm here to tell you. When I looked at that man on film last year, and me and you mentioned this, Phil. It was one time in the Titans game, he missed like two to three tackles in one drive, right? There was times where he looked like he didn't want any part in chasing down the plays, right? And look, that very well could have been that Doug Peterson was wearing on him. So I stand by it, man. He didn't look good last year. He doesn't he didn't look nowhere near the player that he looks to be today. And I'm glad to eat my words on him now that he's playing to his potential. But, you know, like I was I was looking like the potential and all of that went impressing me last year. I wanted to see it take place on the field before, you know, I jumped the gun on this young man. And here he is, he's showing his potential that he showed at Utah playing like the player he is. And again, I think a lot of it is um Anthony Campanini and his impact um on Devin Lloyd uh because it just looks like he, you know, he wants to be there, and uh he's making the tackles in the open field that he wasn't making before. He's um playing better in coverage, right? Like it was one time, and you know, we mentioned this film in the preseason when he played in that third preseason game, which we were kind of shocked. Like, why is Devin Lloyd out here against the Dolphins? He looked lost in coverage, and now like you look at the film, and I think it was Gus um that put this out. Shoutouts to him. Um, but you look at the film, and Devin Lloyd is conducting like he's foyer, right? Like he's pointing out routes to foyer, like, hey, take that route, passing off routes to people. He's making, as I mentioned earlier, he's making the the tackles in the open field that he wasn't making before at times, and um, you know, he just looks like a completely different player, man. He's unstoppable and blitzing, right? As well. Uh, he's getting penetration in the backfield, so he's just really doing it all. And yeah, he is playing, you know. I'll be the first to admit this, man. He's playing at an all-pro level right now. And um, you know, he's a guy that like at this point, man, as as upset as I was as I was with him last year, like you gotta keep him if he's playing like this, bro. Like, good organizations don't let that go, right? So um, I don't know, man. I I feel like maybe maybe me and you talked about this film. Uh maybe him and Fred Warner swapped hands or something because Fred Warner couldn't catch a cole yesterday. Although he was he he was he looked good, Trevor was trying to give him the ball, man. Yeah, she was trying. But you know, and speaking of which, um, shoutouts to Trevor for not breaking the interception record. It was an interception record up for grabs. So um shoutouts to him and a little help from Warner uh for not breaking that. But that's where I wanted to start is with Devin Lloyd, man. And um, yeah, man, like I'm at a point now where it's like I would be hurt if we let that man go. The way he's playing in the middle of the field, like at an all-pro level, you gotta figure it out and keep him. And you know, James Gladstone comes from a Rams organization that knows you don't let players like that just go. Like, that's something Trent Balkey would do, but um not um James Gladstone.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, man, Devin Lloyd. Uh I mean we were talking about it like before the season when we were looking at like his Madden rating, like we were joking about it. Like, who does Devin Lloyd bribe at EA to get his Madden rating this high? And you know, we have we've seen like a version kind of of this Devin Lloyd, like in his rookie year, and then that's the one that like disappeared. So, you know, fingers crossed that, and I don't think that's going to happen again, uh, as far as him uh you know reverting back. But this is a uh a whole different level. This is all pro football defensive player of the year conversation type of um type of play. If Devin Lloyd is playing like this in Dallas or in New York or in Kansas City, something one of these bigger markets, people are talking about him being one of the best linebackers in the league. And he's playing that way right now. In in heading into week five, Devin Lloyd is a top five to ten linebacker in the NFL. And he is gonna get paid, and rightly so. And, you know, I you know, I think that him not getting that fifth-year option certainly played a part into how he is performed, but he's everywhere, man. You turn on the film and you you watch every single play, he's somewhere nearby all the time, whether he's making the tackle or at least just impacting the play in some sort of way. I have not seen anything like this in a in a very, very long time. And then when you pair that with how well Josh Hines Allen and Trayvon Walker are playing, along with uh Eric Armstead making plays, being back in his natural position, making his return to San Francisco. Eric Armstead, another guy, people that were ready to throw out of town, you know, and we're we're learning just so much about like how much these guys just were not put in the right positions to succeed. And now they are. And I think the thing that we're we're all worried about now, Jay, is that we aren't gonna have Anthony Campanili very long. He is going to get head coaching opportunities very, very soon if things continue to trend the same way. And imagine if this defense has a similar performance on prime time against the Kansas City Chiefs on Monday. They have an opportunity here. I I think there even though there's not necessarily such a thing as a moral victory, they have an opportunity to come out of here, even if they I think if they don't win to make a big statement on uh, you know, being the only game on uh and being in prime time and kind of riding those wrongs from last year's Monday night performance against Buffalo. Uh this is a team that I think as far as defensively and schematically, they can they can try and figure out. It's just of course that speed, you know, when you talk about like Pacheck, I'm getting ahead of myself and looking towards next week, but um, you know, there's an opportunity here for for them to make a big statement on Monday night football um for sure if they continue to play this way. And hopefully that includes, of course, Trayvon Walker on Monday night. But yeah, lots to lots to love about how Devin Lloyd is playing, Jay.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely. And you talked on you know who's helped him get there, uh Camp O'Neilly, um, who you know, yeah, there are concerns he might be gone uh sooner rather than later. But the good news is, Phil, the league hates defensive coordinators as head coaches. So that's the good news, right? Um, because we had to practically um yell at the top our lawns for AG to get a job, right? For Aaron Glenn to get a job. So um there's that. So, you know, hopefully, well, you know, I don't want to say that because you want the man to get the best opportunity that he can. I was about to say hopefully the league continues that trend of not wanting DC's as head coaches, but you know, you never want to say that because this pertains to him feeding his family and getting a better opportunity. But I wouldn't mind keeping keeping Coach Camp as long as we can. I'll put it that way. Right. Um, so yeah, the next thing uh I wanted to talk about um is just the fact that um BTJ's hands look better. Um, you know, he he didn't have any issues catching the ball. Now I know he did have the one catch where he couldn't get both feet in bounds, which that's this generation just frustrates me so much with that. Like, I I don't know, man. Like it was something that like receivers practiced to the T back in the day. But um anyway, that being said, though, um, it looks like he is starting to slowly get his confidence back in terms of catching the ball. Uh, we kind of talked about it a little bit um earlier where it was mentioned that um, you know, it looked like the Jaguars were maybe trying to design um a situation for him to not catch many in the middle of the field. Um, and then Mia kind of responded in a tweet in response to that. Uh, it's probably because just you know, the reason they that he caught a lot of out routes, which is fine. Like, if that's what it takes to get him going, good. You know, shout outs to Robert Salah for helping us get um BTJ going. But a part of it is probably because you know Salah and that Gus Bradley and Pete Carroll Tree, they believe in a lot of like cup cover three and deep zone coverage, this, that, and the other. So they were playing so far off of BTJ where it was a lot of opportunities probably for outbreak and routes. So if that's what it takes to get him going, shout outs uh to them for helping us get them there, as I said earlier. But I I just like seeing BTJ um, you know, using his hands to catch the passes, looking them in, all of that good stuff. That's an encouraging sign, and um, hopefully he'll continue trending in the right direction. Uh, Parker Washington, man, that's that's the last takeaway. Is not just him though, but the special teams, which it was hit or miss, right? We we missed a field goal, so there was that. Um, but now people understand why we say, like, and we weren't joking about this, that this team has the potential to have the best special teams, you know. If our punter and kicker can get their stuff back together, they have the potential to be the best special teams in the league. And Parker Washington showed that, um, showed it in a big way with the punt return. Um, Liam kind of talked about this too as well. And this is why this team is um in some ways special, is because while one side of the ball might be struggling, somebody else picks it up somewhere down the road. So, that being said, Parker Washington kind of made up for um some of the offensive issues that we were having. Um, contributed that touchdown, Bachel Tootin, as well. You could put him in that mix. He had the big return that put us in good position as well. Um, so shoutouts to them in terms of the return game. Now we just need to get Cam Little back right. We need to get um uh Logan Cook back right. Who Logan Cook, I'll have to go back and look at the film with him. He looked okay today or Sunday, should I say. So I'll go back and look and see how he looked in totality. But yeah, shoutouts to the special teams for uh giving us that shot in the arm that we needed because when you look at how the game turned out, they probably were the X factor. Special teams was probably the X factor in this game. And if you go and look at some of the takeaways from like these 49ers writers, right? Some of the things they're saying is like special teams let us down. So that feels like it was the X factor in this game that kind of uh compensated for some of the issues that the offense was having.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that was going to be one of my questions that uh for you is what is your level of concern for for the special teams? Logan Cook is is very low on this scale just because uh, you know, and I didn't see the game last week, so I don't know if he struggled last week as well. But here, you know, it Levi Stadium is a weird stadium, you know, you got the wind coming off the uh off the lower part of the stadium. We were talking about how it's just oddly placed and oddly shaped and oddly built. We were talking about that before the episode. So I'm I'm not going to fully panic when it comes to that. Um, but you know, they uh obviously Cam Little has a chance to make a big field goal there in the fourth quarter, and he misses that. Uh, he missed one whether it was last week or a couple of weeks ago. And uh, you know, um obviously we're we're weeks and weeks away from the 70-yard field goal, right? Um that was the feel-good story of the preseason. But um, you know, we're starting to see a couple of things that are a little concerning. Um, and then uh again, obviously the great the great thing has been Parker Washington and and um yeah, a little bit of a you know uh a mix up there with the Quentin Allen with early on with the kickoff, and that that's just these rookies learning these new rules, and honestly, everybody learning these new rules. We've seen major mistakes uh when it comes to these new kickoff rules. So, what is your level of concern when it comes to special teams? You know what can they do as far as getting that right? Because you're talking about one guy who is you know still very new to the league, and then Logan Cook, like I said, I'm very low in the totem pole in terms of my concern. But uh yeah, what do you see in there? And you know, what do you what do you think is going on?
SPEAKER_00:Not high. I don't have a high level concern for him. For one, like I've always liked how Cam Little, and he mentioned this before, how he's wired and how he goes about his business of kicking field goals. And he says, like, when he he enters the field, he just kind of just blocks everything out, you know, and he's just in this his own space, which I like kickers that can do that. I mean, I and I get it, like a lot of kickers try and do that, but you could tell like he's real good at blocking out the noise and just getting himself in that place where it's just it feels like it's just him on the field, and I think he can get back to that. And also, too, man, he you know, the Reason he's on his team for a reason in regards to why the Jaguars spent the draft pick on him. And a big reason for that is because he's kicked in big time atmospheres. When you come from the SEC, right, Arkansas, which is where he came from, you know, he's he's been to all of these stadiums that we talk about all the time, the swamp. Um, he's been to um Sanford Phil, um, Between the Hedges, so on and so forth. He's been to all of these, probably played Texas too, your team, Phil Loud Stadium as well, Alabama, all of these legendary stadiums that we talk about, Auburn Stadium. He's been there and he's felt those atmospheres. And I think that's like how he was able to be drafted as high as he was, is because he's kicked in some of those situations. So um honestly, he's really kicked in stadiums bigger than NFL stadiums, if we're being honest. So that doesn't concern me. And and Logan Cook's been in the league long enough where he could correct things. Um, I know the question came up as to if special teams coach Heath Evans um is somebody that we need to start looking at and um you know considering like is he getting the job done? And I'll say this, man, that man is one of the better special teams coaches in the league. Up until two weeks ago, we weren't having this conversation, and you know, he was so good at his job that Liam Cohen kept him from the previous regime. So that's kind of a sign, you know, like, hey, Liam looked at him as a as something as a piece of the previous organization that he could keep and build with. So, no, to answer your question, I'm not concerned about the special teams.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they built up enough goodwill to earn the benefit of the doubt, especially like I said, Logan Cook. Um, we'll see what happens with a uh a young kicker who has at least so far has shown that uh you know that he again is able to uh kick through these situations and um you know have ice in his veins. So uh yeah, not totally, totally concerned with that quite yet. And hopefully they won't give us a reason uh to uh to do so. So um and then the last question here uh as we uh you start to look towards Monday is uh you know the performance of Trevor Lawrence. He certainly didn't light it up, but early on he was doing pretty well. I think he started around like eight of eight, then uh of course had the uh the touchdown pass to Hunter Long. Um, but there were up there were definitely situations there uh where you know he he could have easily had maybe two or three interceptions, if I recall correctly. Um J, I'm a very emotional watcher of football. You know, you know that I am, especially the Bengals game really, really made me angry. And 21 to 31, 174, uh and a touchdown. Um there were still several miscues when it came to running the offense. Obviously, the penalties have continued to be a thing. Uh that's the one thing we have we are just not seeing get better week after week, and that's something that needs to fix itself very, very soon. With Trevor, you know, we have been very, very avid defenders of him, and Trevor Lawrence has kind of become this quarterback where you can really get an idea if somebody is watching film or not. And I watched the entire uh you know, I watched the entire game on Sunday, and there are a lot of things that are beginning to frustrate me about Trevor Lawrence. Now, this is no not certainly not me saying that we need to move on from him, but there are just certain actions in the and the way that he's still he's still making some mistakes that should not be happening at this point in his career. We're gonna throw the money out of it. We're gonna get the money out. We know how it works for quarterbacks on this podcast. You pay or you or or you or you don't, and then you're you know, you're one of these core one of these teams that are constantly looking for a quarterback. When do you need to see something from Trevor this year before you're like, all right, man, let's go, let's let's pick it up. You have to you have to be a reason that we're winning some of these games as well. And they're playing very complimentary football right now, and you can argue that the part that still hasn't quite flashed, the way that ETN, the way that Parker Washington, the way that Devin Lloyd has, is 16. And I just want to know how how you're feeling about it. Um, because I didn't want to come in here and be totally negative, of course, coming off of a win, but there are just some things that are continuing to concern me about Trev.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I think one thing um that is the issue, and and Liam has said this too, and I think I I kind of overlooked it myself because as I told you earlier, I thought it was gonna be the defense that started slow, you know. So, like I didn't really I really didn't pay any mind to the offense because I thought the offense was gonna be the side of the ball that started faster than the defense because they had the run game. But Liam has said this too, man. Like, he got a lot on his plate, right? Um, this is what Trevor's. So it was Liam Doug Urban. This is his third scheme in four years, if my math is right, third and four years. Um, and like I said, Liam has said it like we're gonna ask a lot out of him as the quarterback for this offense, and also too, something that that makes me optimistic about him. He started slow with Doug Peterson, and then he had that stretch where he went crazy. I think it started with the Ravens game, right? If I'm not mistaken, it was that Ravens game, and he just went crazy after that. So I have to go back and look at what point in the season that was that year, but he started slow under Doug too, and he put it together, and then that's when they went on that crazy run, went to the playoffs. Um, it's just that's part of his nature, I think. It is just he just starts slow. And um, for him to be in another scheme, like he was with the Doug Peterson situation, same situation basically. Um, I can envision a situation where he starts to put it together around, you know, who knows, like maybe that Rams game uh that's coming up in London somewhere like that, or you know, somewhere in that ballpark. So, no, I'm not concerned with him because again, like I've seen this before. I've seen him start like this under Doug Peterson. I can't remember like the Urban Meyer season is such a blur because it's something we rather all forget. Um I just I know you know the season in general wasn't good, but I just forgot like how sporadic he was that year is what I'm saying. Um, but yeah, no, I'm not concerned about him because just I date back to how he started with Doug and turned it on then. So uh that's what I would say about that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that's a really good point. You know, it took some time with that, you know, that first year with uh with Doug. And listen, if they put this thing together and it's all three phases and then the penalties go away, if you even cut the penalties in half, Jay, like they are they're blowing teams out. If if you if you stop shooting yourself in the foot and you know, Trev turned some of those misses into uh, you know, the the Travis Hunter miss in the Carolina game, you know, some of these decisions that were he's just missing Brian Thomas Jr. or Parker Washington, you know, those one or two or three plays and we're having uh you know a totally different conversation. So, you know, I always got to depend on you to be the uh to be the level-headed one because uh yeah, I was very frustrated watching some of uh the really the frustration came when he's uh you know, we're with the back-to-back um delay of games. I'm just like, get the damn play out. Like what's what's happening here? Luckily, the interception is overturned, but yeah, uh certainly need to preach patience when it comes to this, you know, learning quite a bit and and having a a competent head coach and offensive staff try and uh guide his way, you know, through this. But yeah, you're gonna say something. Go ahead, Jay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and uh, you know, like I'm not excusing his mental miscues or anything like that. Um, but yeah, a lot of the mental stuff is what frustrates me. And then I think about it though, man, like this kind of goes back to me and you have had this conversation as well, too, um, in terms of the mental part of the game. And when I'm talking about that, um, I'm talking about um, you know, the when they were going into the half where he throws the ball to ETN, and it's like, bro, what what are you doing, man? Throw it over his head. Time slides out of bounds towards the end of the game, too. Yeah, exactly. Those types of things. Now, some people said he started inbounds. I have to go back and look at that play, so maybe he did, I don't know. But um, also my argument to that was why not slide earlier, though. You're such a tall quarterback, slide earlier, you know what I'm saying, to ensure you're in bounds. Like, I don't get it. Like, why wait so close to the bound line? But um, one thing I have to remind myself is that the mental part of this game is something that it does take the younger generation something to acquire. Like, we have these conversations all the time, and look no further than you know what Brian Thomas Jr. has been going through with the drops, right? Um, and also, too, we just we literally mentioned this him not being able to get his feet in bounds. So, like, this is a thing you see not just with Trevor, but with a lot of young skilled players in general, and I think it goes back to what I mentioned earlier, Phil, what that we've talked about here. I personally don't like how kids are getting coached out of high school, into college, into the NFL. Like, that's where it all starts in terms of getting them like mentally prepared and not to make these kind of mental mistakes that they're making. Like, I don't think the coaching on the high school level is where it should be in a lot of places, and I think that stuff trickles, man. It trickles down into where the you know, and I get it, like, yeah, at this point you're professional, you're getting paid a lot of money, but it starts early with these kids, man. And when you see little things like that, like we just mentioned, Phil, right, with him, you know, sliding at the wrong time and throwing the ball to ETN. That's stuff you start learning like way back in high school, right? And that just kind of shows you like not it, it's not just something that's affecting him, uh, BTJ. We see these mistakes league-wide. Man, we see kids like professional football players and college football players throwing the ball away before they cross the pipeline. Like, what are y'all coaching these kids, man? What are y'all coaching these kids at the high school and college level? And a lot of that stuff is hard to remove out of your system because it again it starts early. So I think like we're seeing that with Trevor. But again, um, Liam is such a detailed coach to the point where I think like he'll be able to help, you know, a lot of these issues that they're having in general, not just Trevor and BTJ, but a lot of the other issues that um we're seeing here. And um, yeah, man, I think it just boils down to again, as I say, he started slow with Doug, but also to just kind of the faith in in Liam and also the faith in and also Gladstone and his previous experience with the Rams. I know he's not the coach, but you also have him to lean on and you have Boselli to lean on. So had this been Doug, I'd be saying, yeah, we're he's probably not gonna get it together. You know what I'm saying? But um, this isn't Doug. And um, yeah, I can't wait to see what the the future holds for him because I think when it does click for Trevor, it's he's gonna like take off, right? Like that's kind of what he did with with Doug, speaking of which, like he's gonna take off to like heights, and then people are gonna start having these conversations of like, okay, like should this dude be a pro bowler now? And we'll be looking at him kind of like we were looking at Devin Lloyd earlier, like, you know, it just it clicked somewhere down the road, it clicked, and he ascended from here to here. But we'll see in time or two.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think also it's just a tough ask, I think, for a lot of people to just from a baseline perspective to say continue to be patient with with a fifth-year, fourth, fifth-year quarterback, right? And even though uh even though, you know, they we we need to exercise that patience because this is a new system. And he has had just an incredibly rocky start. We see so many of these quarterbacks ruined over and over again uh because of poor uh front office decisions and poor management. And now we got the right guys in the building, and it it warrants having that patience again. So um, yeah, I think it's just again a hard ask, or it's a tougher ask for for somebody when they have been in the league for so long. But again, you know, there's just so much here going on that he just hasn't experienced before. Um, and and hopefully we'll um uh end up uh improving him for the better going forward. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, also keep this in mind, I feel while he did have that run with Doug, he's been poorly coached on the NFL level too. Keep that in mind, too. Um he started with Urb, like blame Shad Khan for that, you know, like that. And that's why we had a passionate discussion about that in spaces. Do not give Urban Meyer the keys to start this young man's career in the NFL and Trent Balkey and Shod Khan did it anyway. But he was poorly coached by Urban Meyer and poorly coached by Doug, too. Even when he had that run, it was a lot of mechanical stuff that he was getting away with when he had the great run that he had. So, you know, he he's been poorly coached a long, long time. So, yeah, all of that said, man, I just wanted to spin this into one more question that uh Stodge put in our space or our um our text thread and get your opinion on this. Um Stodge asked this, and we can maybe even title the episode this, but um, after what we've seen so far in this first quarter, do you think the Jags are back?
SPEAKER_02:Well, that is that's a loaded and dangerous question to answer four weeks into the season. Um I'll say this they are closer to being back than I thought they would be at this point of the season. Uh, if you don't uh if you guys remember my or didn't see my record prediction, I think was nine and eight. I had them coming out of like this first stretch pretty rough all the way up until the Rams game, the international game. I think if they win on Monday, and it is a uh uh a decisive and maybe not decisive, but you know, if they're competitive all the way through and if it's a back and forth game and they once again find a way to win a game that they previously would have lost, like the Houston game. That's a game we would have lost in the past. This game, we would have given that one away. Shades of what we saw in Cincinnati, right? That that is what we were worried about is oh crap, same old Jags. And these last two weeks, they have turned that around. If they pull out a win, because Kansas City all of a sudden they got some of their guys back and they're looking right. So you're never gonna wave off or dismiss a team that has Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid. If they go into Monday Night Football and they don't embarrass themselves like they did last year in Buffalo, which I don't expect to happen. I expect them to at least be competitive, then I think we can say probably. It's such a long NFL season, man. We're so scarred from eight and three that I can't and being a win away from the one seed, I can't quite say it without feeling I'm gonna jinx us. So what do you what do you think? Because I I'm just too superstitious of a sports fan to say it.
SPEAKER_00:Nah, yeah, I understand. I have superstitions too, man. Um I'll say this. I think we've already answered this question. And what I mean by that, we've already given our prediction, which they've overachieved on. So we, in a nutshell, have already said, well, at least before the season, we said the Jazz would be back. You know, we think they would be back. So for them to overachieve at this point, in terms of where we had them on our predictions, I I can feel like we probably answered that question when we did our predictions, you know, because we were all but saying that the Jaguars were gonna be back. And um, that being said, not only have they overachieved in terms of where we thought they would be too. Um, they won a game that we had circled as the one of the most questionable ones on the schedule, you know, if not the most questionable, just because like how we function on the West Coast. Um, so yeah, I think I think keyword that we are back. Um now look now the we had to monitor some of these injuries. We did come out of the um this game, and that's that's what happens when you face the 49ers. You're gonna come out of that game beat up. It just is what it is, and I mean to kind of echo that, look at how beat up the 49ers came out of the game. You know what I'm saying? Like they came out of the game even. So it's just it's one of them Georgia, the way these two teams are built, it's one of those Georgia Alabama type games where it's a slug fest, people are gonna come out banged up, you know, and you know, hopefully Trayvon Walker, which is a a big part of this they do is they built great Georgia and from Texas, by the way, which I know Kirby Smart teaches fundamentals like that, like to the T. Like, I don't know what what was going on there, man. Um, and then yeah, one more last thing, too. Yeah, that you mentioned about uh us needing to fix the penalties too. That's another reason why I think we're back too, is because like we've won as arguably, I'll have to look at the stats. Like, we've been winning as like the most penal now penalized team. Arguably, uh, we might not be number one, but somewhere in the top, one of the most penalized teams in in football, man. So that's a good sign where you can win with the amount of penalties we have. I'll have to look and see how many we have total, but we gotta be in the top of the league somewhere. But yeah, nothing else to add, man. Good episode. Um, had fun as always for Monday night.
