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Touchdown Jaguars!
Touchdown Jaguars!
Episode 126: Seahawks/Jaguars Week 6 Analysis - Monday Night Hangover, Jags Look Sloppy at Home
We break down a flat 20–12 loss to the Seahawks, why the trenches failed, and what has to change before the London trip. Credit to Seattle’s plan, but we set firmer expectations for a 4–2 team.
In our latest episode we discussed the following topics:
• Offensive line pressure and sack surge on Trevor Lawrence
• Missing Robert Hainsey’s run blocking and leadership
• Special teams regression with Cam Little
• Wide receiver matchups and Seattle’s route craft
• Clarifying what Travis Hunter’s role should be
• Pass rush stagnation, Josh Allen attention, need for an interior penetrator
• Rams in London without Puka Nacua and the Jags without. Devin Lloyd
• AFC South outlook and cleaning penalties to raise the floor
Make sure you click the Linktree link in the show notes of this and every single episode. You’ll find all of our social media pages as well as where to find the link to download the SeatGeek app so you can use our promo code Touchdown Jaguars. Save yourself twenty dollars on your first purchase with SeatGeek. If you’re listening on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, whatever podcast player you are using, make sure you give us five stars.
James Johnson and Phil Barrera bring you the best and most up to date Jacksonville Jaguars news. "Touchdown Jaguars!" is a tribute to the prospective ownership group "Touchdown Jacksonville!" In 1991, the NFL announced plans to add two expansion teams and "Touchdown Jacksonville!" announced its bid for a team, and Jacksonville was ultimately chosen as one of five finalists. In November 1993, the NFL owners voted 26–2 in favor of awarding the 30th franchise to Jacksonville. James and Phil have been fans of the franchise ever since and have had the honor (and sometimes dishonor) of covering the team professionally since 2017. The rest as they say, is history.
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars Podcast. Here are your hosts, James Johnson and Phil Smith.
SPEAKER_01:Hey everybody, welcome back to the Touchdown Jaguars Podcast. I am your co-host, Phil Barrera, and here with me as always is your other co-host, James Johnson. And Jay, we are, for the first time in a few weeks, actually not recording on a victory Monday. Unfortunately, the Jacksonville Jaguars fell to the Seattle Seahawks 20-12 in a pretty rough game to watch, to say the least. So we will talk about all of that here this evening. Only their second loss of the season, and I know a lot of people are trying to spin everything, you know, positively, which is certainly understandable. Uh, because you know what? Heading into the London game, if you told us that the Jacksonville Jaguars were going to be four and two uh heading uh right before their trip across the pond, you certainly would take that. But, you know, interested to talk to you about that here today, about that specific mindset. And should we start expecting more from this team? But Jay, excited to talk to you about this here tonight, uh, after the Jags had maybe a little bit of a hangover, a Monday night football hangover, and you know, just looked pretty sloppy against the Seattle Seahawks.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, man, I was working throughout the process, but um I was able to see some of it, and then I uh was able to see up until uh late in the fourth quarter after I got off of work today. But yeah, man, a sloppy game. Um the Seahawks look significantly more prepared than us. Um they they outclassed us in a lot of ways, too. And that's not a bad thing to say because that team is very talented too. So I want to stress that first and foremost. All right, like the Seahawks are a good team, and a lot of people were overlooking them in terms of the ability um that they have. And I like Mike McDonald, um, by the way, who I'm a former Ravens coordinator, uh very, very smart defense of mine. I like um Clint Kubiak, I think is their um offensive coordinator as well. You know, we've had some discussions about him when we were going through our coaching search and we were looking for an offensive coordinator, right? So a very underrated team that we face there, but still one that I would say that we should have beat. And uh, yeah, man, like with um these games that we have coming up um heading forward, it would have been nice to um have won this one, um, especially with the Rams coming up. And I do know the Rams will be without Puka as well, so that you know that will help. But still, um, you know, you're going on a uh stretch where you could lose two in a row here when you look at that Rams game, and that's concerning. Uh, but you know, um Liam uh gave a great press conference today, and uh it looks like you know they will do everything in their power to uh make this thing not become a two-game losing streak.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I remember like in our preview episode for the season, you know, we talked about maybe it coming out of these first seven, like going into the bye week. We thought, you know, what three and four, uh worst case scenario, a two-and-five, you know, looking at those wins maybe being like Carolina and Houston. But, you know, the argument can be made. Like this team, I mean, obviously four and two, like we already said, we'll take that, but like the argument can be made. The team could even be five and one, six and oh. And uh, you know, we head over to London to place to face a very, very good LA Rams team. But we know how Jacksonville performs uh in this game, and it's typically pretty well, but uh again, a very, very good LA team that they're gonna have to go against here in just uh a little bit under a week. So uh before we dive into the game, want to welcome in any new listeners and uh and returning listeners. Thank you so much for continuing to support Touchdown Jaguars. Make sure you click the Linktree link in the show notes of this and every single episode. You'll find all of our social media pages as well as where to find uh the link to download the SeatGeek app so you can use our promo code Touchdown Jaguars. Save yourself twenty dollars on your first purchase with SeatGeek. But yeah, Jay, let's dive into it here. Uh, once again, the Jacksonville Jaguars fall to the Seattle Seahawks 20 to 12. It was a very sloppy game, continuing to be sloppy when it comes to turnovers. And of course, the offensive line was certainly the talk of the weekend. Um, the Jaguars just could not protect Trevor Lawrence. I don't have the exact numbers here in front of me. I'm going through our our buddy uh Daniel Griffiths' page here. Um I do know, oh, here we go. Here's the pressures allowed. Six by Walker Little, five by Patrick Macari, five by Ezra Keith Cleveland, four for Anton Harrison, and four for Jonah Mondheim. So yeah, just a uh a pretty bad day across the board for the offensive line. Trevor Lawrence, of course, got sacked. What was it, seven times after only being sacked five times heading into this game? And yeah, just a lot of things went wrong, Jay. Not only was it a sloppy game from the mindset or from the standpoint of penalties, uh, it was just kind of a it was it was kind of a boring game to watch as well. I mean, Seattle came in and really kind of like took advantage of like again, Jacksonville maybe riding that high. And it did seem like at one point or at certain points of the game, like they just expected to come out on top. And uh based off of the last few weeks, you know, again, they come off a big Monday night football win, they're maybe uh feeling themselves a little bit, and it just never came together. And you know, from the run game to the passing game, Brian Thomas Jr. had himself a nice game, finally got into the end zone, but it it was just off, Jay. And you said this before we started recording, they never were technically out of the game, at least as far from a score standpoint. But me watching it live, it just felt like Seattle outclassed them, outcoached them, and from beginning to end, they looked like the better football team out there. I didn't know this, Jay, that their head coach has like an undefeated record on the road dating back to when he was hired. That's a crazy statistic considering how great of a home field advantage Seattle has. But uh, they're a good football team, and you know what, the better team won on Sunday.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that was news to me. I didn't know that Mike McDaniel was such a role warrior, so to speak, right? Shoutouts to the old WWE group. But um, yeah, man. Um but I'm not shocked though. Again, you know, he comes from a tree that we've talked about a lot here that we respect here. Um he comes from that raven's tree, so you know that's kind of Mike McDonald, by the way.
SPEAKER_01:You said Mike McDaniel, but yeah. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, Mike McDonald. Mike McDaniel is uh we thought again you you're thinking about him because he's gonna be working here next year, but not yet.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right, right. Um, but yeah, yeah, um McDonald, I'm sorry. Um comes from that, you know, that Raven's tree where, you know, this is kind of how Harbor started his career when he was there, right? Um if I can recall, just kind of being able to um overcome odds and and travel well in addition to when at home as well. So uh he was well prepared for this job. Um, I think he's going on what year two for the job. But um, yeah, man, like you you mentioned that um, you know, it just that we discussed that it never felt like the Jaguars were out of the game, but at the same time, I think the best wording for it is they felt flat the whole time. And um, you know, some of that could have been, you know, and I know a lot of people argue like, hey, these are paid professionals, and that's a good argument to make. I agree with it that hey, these guys are paid professionals, but it does feel like they um are coming off of that high from Monday night football. And, you know, that's a real thing in football, and this is not me making an excuse for them. Like, when you're a paid athlete, hey, you need to be prepared whether it's a short week, whether you are coming off of a playoff game. Because look at it this way if we go to the playoffs right field, you're gonna be coming off a high if you get a win in the round one of the playoffs, and then you're gonna have to turn right around week two and handle business against the next team. So that argument is a valid argument that you know that they can't get too high, they can't get too low, and they need to be prepared for the next team. But um, all of that being said, I do think that's a real thing in football, um, especially for a team that hasn't won a lot, right? So they're not used to like having to come off of situations like that where you beat the AFC champions and then like have to turn right around on a short week and handle business. That being said, though, um I expected much, much more out of this team, you know, and just the flatness really stood out to me. And, you know, at times, like, like you said, it looked very boring to watch, but it was also frustrating to watch as well. It's like, where's the energy, right, guys? Like, I didn't get a sense of energy from many people, uh, maybe Dennis Gerardek, you know, I saw him have some a little bit of energy, but like even the players and Travis Hunter, of course, he always is energetic, but even the players kind of look flat. And also, as you mentioned too, Phil, um, it felt like they outclassed us in a lot of ways, especially one way in particular. And again, I haven't watched the full game yet, and I watched the condensed version, so I can we're speeding through it. Um, but they definitely outclassed us in the trenches, and you can tell this is one of my first takeaways here, Phil, is that Robert Haynes he was missed, right? And that's not to say that Mondheim had a bad game because I think he only allowed a pressure or two. Um they said on the chart, whereas the rest of the veterans who have been here for you know many years or at least two years or so, um, allow multiple pressures. So that's not even to say that Munheim had a bad game, and I really like him, and I think he's a gym, and I think we got something there. But where we could tell that Hainsey was missed is in terms of the run blocking game, right? I think I was looking on ESPN the other day, and Robert Hainsey has like an 82% run block win rate, which is like good for second in the league. So that goes to show you how much of an impact he has on the run game and how much um of a difference there would be there between him and a rookie, and also from a leadership perspective and a juice perspective. Every time you look at sounds of the game or these um pep talks Liam is giving after the game, you hear Hainzy as well, and you even saw Hainzey with him during the infamous keep my name out of your mouth um whole thing. But um you see Hainzey also trying to um you know put positivity in the air with these pep talks and you know, echoing what Liam said, and then so on and so forth. So um, from a leadership perspective and a juice perspective, and then in terms of um winning in the trenches when it comes to running the ball, that's where Robert Haynes was sorely missing. You know, I hope we get him back soon enough, but again, at the same time, uh still high on Jonah Munheim. And um when it comes to um how the offense looked, Trevor Lawrence, you know, there were times where I expected better mechanics for him, and uh the mechanics weren't there. But at the same time, when you're pressured as much as he was pressured in this game, and I pin this one a lot on the offensive line. When you're pressured as much as he was, like the can the mechanics, especially for a quarterback who has struggled with mechanics, are gonna be very sporadic anyway. Um, and that's because of you know having to move in the pocket a lot, having to throw on the run a lot. And to Trevor's defense, he made something out of nothing in some plays, too, Phil, by the way, like where he had to move around in the pocket. So I think for the most part, he did what he could. It was one throw where he overthrew Diami, who was streaking up the sideline, where it was like, okay, you got to hit that. But for the most part, he made the best of the pocket that was given to him for the most part, right? And um, you know, this one, yeah, you have to feel like it will be pinned on the offensive line. Um and also, you know, this is an issue that we knew coming into the season that this next regime would have to work on, that Trent Balkey failed at massively, and that was fixing this offensive line. And to their defense, they've been able to mask a lot of things up until this point. But when you face a defensive line like the Seahawks defensive line, you know, at some point, you know, it'll come crashing down, and that's exactly what happened. And it just kind of goes to show you that James Gladstone, the for the wonderful job that he and Liam Cohen and this offensive um staff have done, it's still a lot of work they need to do to get this offensive line to where it needs to be. Um, but in the meantime, they just kind of gotta just like coach through it, mass the flaws that they have. But eventually they're gonna have to get some of their own guys in place because a lot of the old regime's guys is still here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we've talked about that throughout the season, like in the group chat, just talking about how they are um, you know, that that's certainly going to be one of the main things that they addressed in the offseason is just getting in their own guys when it comes to uh specifically left tackle. Um, so that is going to be uh a key uh part of the offseason, not to look too far ahead. There's still a whole lot of football left to play, and a lot of football that, you know, a lot of meaningful football that maybe Jacksonville didn't think that they would necessarily find themselves in uh when it came to this point of the, or you know, yeah, this point of the season, or at least a lot of fans, I'm sure inside the building they expected to be here. That's another, you know, one of the reasons that we have been, you know, enjoyed watching this team so much. Is like they they they have uh they they expect to win. They expect to be in the position to um you know to find themselves uh victorious at the end of a game. That's why, like we said, you know, we don't necessarily think the team uh uh ever um felt like they were out of it, uh, and especially the coaching staff. And that's a good thing. You know, they're they're learning how to win, they're learning all these things, and like Trevor Lawrence, you know, I've seen some people, you know, again, who within even the own fan our own fan base, we already know the national media is not paying attention, but within our own fan base, for sure, people simply not paying attention. Now, listen, I was very critical and concerned about Trevor Lawrence earlier in the season. And he is still a very frustrating guy to watch play football, but this was not on him. He, like you said, he missed a couple of those throws. There was also the throw to who was? I think it was like a tight end, something he just overthrew like Hunter Long or something like that. Stuff that shouldn't be happening when you have a you know just a layup in terms of a throw. But he did all that he could, man. I mean, he made the nice play to Tim Patrick. Um, of course, he had uh, you know, he had a couple of really nice throws during the game as well. It seemed like him and Brian Thomas Jr. are starting to get going. But I dare you to find any quarterback that's going to be successful after being hit that many times and sacked as well and under that much pressure. So it's nice to see him running the football a little bit more, you know, seeing a little bit more of Clemson Tigers, Trevor. But, you know, again, if if you think that loss was on Trevor Lawrence, you're simply not paying attention. I will be one of the first people, you know, to call out any frustrations when it comes to his play or anybody's play. Uh, but Trevor certainly was not the problem on Sunday. And um, you know, especially when we've seen that Trevor, we have seen him play poorly, and that certainly is not what happened uh against Seattle. Go ahead, Jay.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. Again, you know, um on the misses, um, and he and to uh answer your question, he had another good one where he threw the ball, which is dangerous to do, by the way. Um, kids don't do what you saw Trevor Lawrence do Sunday. He threw the ball across the field to John, uh, it was either Munt or Hunter.
SPEAKER_01:It was Hunter long, he had that crazy first down. It was on fourth down, too, wasn't it?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it was like on fourth down, but he was so open, you know, like it was like, why not? But kids don't do that at home, like you will get picked off. But um, yeah, um, it was a a tweet that I pulled up here to kind of just like show what they were dealing with at left tackle. It was from Jordan DeLugo here, and um, yeah, he says here in six games this year, Walker Little has allowed four or more pressures in at least three games, I guess is what he was trying to say. It's a typo in there. And then um it says that his uh 94.3 pass pro efficiency is a far cry from the 97.5 he had in 2025. So he's saying it's a discrepancy there, albeit it looks small. He has allowed the third most pressures of any offensive tackle in football this year, and um the two players in front of him are starting due to injuries, right? So, like basically they're there because the number one offensive tackles were injured. So, yeah, that just kind of shows you, man, that um we probably should start circling left tackle um in terms of when we look at those draft needs, even though we're you know we're back with drafting um in the back of each round. I think we got an early second round pick from the Browns, but aside from that, like I think we're we're drafting in the back of each round. But yeah, man, if you are gonna start watching film at this point, guys, on draft prospects, we might start need uh we might need to start looking at some left tackles.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you can you can bet that James Gladstone is going to want to get his own guy in here. And you know, we saw some of those bulky guys, like you just talked about, like uh coming up short in in terms of uh this game. And um, you know, we'll uh there's there's still some work to be done for sure. Uh and then you know, I guess from uh my next question here, Jay, goes from uh one little to another uh when it comes to special teams. Like, what's your level of concern here with Cam Little? I think we addressed this a couple weeks ago, and the situation's not necessarily getting any better. And first off, of course, he misses the extra point, which I think I saw some people talking about, like might have been his first extra miss like missed extra point in his football career, like dating back to high school. Like it just doesn't happen with Walker Little. We we talk about the yips a lot when it comes to kickers specifically. It it certainly is a thing. Like we saw it with I can't remember the kicker we brought over from San Diego a couple years ago, the one that hit the big field goal in the uh the playoff game, but like that was him in San Diego, right? Comes over here, he's great. Uh so that does happen when it comes to kickers. A lot of that is a mental game. So I want to ask you first, what's your concern about Cam Little? And then also because a lot of people are talking about it, like, would you have gone for two in that situation when the Jaguars ended up doing it? It's instead of making it 20 to 14, it's 20 to 12, and you know, kind of changes the whole dimension of the game. But also at the same time, if you put four points on the board from Walker Little, that's also a completely different football game. So, what are your thoughts on Cam Little and also the decision to go for two at that stage of the game?
SPEAKER_04:Uh, you mean Cam Little, um, but I know what you mean. Uh you say it walk a little, but yeah, both Littles are frustrating. So Yeah, well, you know, we talk about special teams. We might talk about special teams like in terms of the amount of time we spent on special teams more than any Jaguars podcast. Um, and um, yeah, I do feel like, yeah, you're right, the yips are like a real thing. Like, look at it like a picture, uh, like a picture in MLB. Like, they go through it too. Like, you'll see these pictures where for the most part of their um season, they'll look lights out, right? But they'll have a game or two or a stretch or two, you know. And I could say this like looking at Spencer Strider, for example, where they just look out of character, right? And it takes a lot of wherewithal to get you back to where you were. And I think that's what it is, man. Like he's gonna have to dig deep mentally and you know, get himself right, which again, you know, I kind of mentioned him before. We we've talked about him before like two weeks ago, where what I do like about him is he can always go back to the high pressure atmospheres that he's kicked in in the SEC, right? It's like you always have that to go back to to get yourself right. Um I am more concerned than I was about him two weeks ago because when you're missing extra points, right? That's a little bit concerning. Now, granted, you said that was his first extra point ever missed in his career, which is insane. Um, but yeah, like that's what I'm saying is that also proves the the fact that that's very uncharacteristic of him for him to miss the extra point, which it's like, okay, now you're missing extra points. Now we should definitely be concerned. And just the the kicks are just coming off his foot, just kind of funny too, man. So maybe it's a mechanical thing, right? Like, um, you know, I'm not a like I'm not a kicking expert. Like, I more so can speak on special teams coverage and how it should be covered and how people should be getting down the field and things like that. Um, so like maybe we should bring in somebody like Josh Goby one day on this podcast to see if he can help us break this down. But um, yeah, I am more concerned um than I was before. I would say moderately concerned with them, but not like panic button concerned with them right now. So we'll see. Um, it does, and it would help for us to have some kind of confidence in him because in this league, you're gonna it's gonna come a time where he's gonna have to hit a game-winning field goal for us. And for us to say we're confident that he'll do it after the stretch he's been through, like if they have to try them on the field for a situation like that, all of our hearts are gonna be on the ground pretty much. And um, you know, that was not the case previously. Anytime we tried Cam Little out there in the past, it's like this is automatic. He's gonna make it. And it feels bad to not have that luxury anymore. Like, it feels like you know, a lot of anxiety is gonna come um with his um his kick in this season, but hopefully he'll get it right in time. We'll tell on that. Oh, yeah, the two-point conversion, that was in the fourth quarter, right? I think that was like one of the last plays I saw too, Phil, by the way. Um, in regards to that, I I understand it because I think they were just trying to get in a situation where so that would have gave them what 14 points, correct, if they would have converted. And they were probably weighing the fact that they were struggling offensively and that they weren't getting to you know the red zone that much. And in their mind, maybe they were thinking, like, hey, uh the struggles we're having, we may not be able to get to the red zone, but one more time, because they are they are demolishing us on the front. So like if we are able to get to the red zone one more time and we're able to score, we'll be able to win this game by one point. And then you can just pin it on your defense uh to hold the Seattle Seahawks off for the rest of the game, which you know, in theory, that's that's something that also should not have been super hard to do because you know, Sam Darnold for as um as okay as he's been for the Seattle Seahawks, I would rather pin this game, especially with how Anthony Campanili has been scheming things up and causing turnovers. I would much so rather pin it on them to finish the game off and be able to, you know, stop Sam Darnold if it came to that, um, over pinning it on our offense who struggled mightily in this game, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, I think it's a loss also a lot was, you know, kind of you alluded to just trying to like get something going. I mean, the offense had been so stagnant the entire game, which is crazy. Well, I wouldn't say the entire game because actually on the first touchdown drive, the one that ended in the Brian Thomas Jr. touchdown, they made it look easy, man. They 100% look like a team that belonged. That's the team that beat the Kansas City Chiefs, and they just drove down the field like nothing, and all of a sudden they were in the end zone. And and then from that point on, it was nothing until again, Trevor is improvising and running for his life on almost every single play. So yeah, I I understand like to a point like both sides of that argument, but I also I I didn't hate the call. Um, but again, it comes down to like Little should have given us minimum four points there. You know, it should be 20 to 17, uh bare minimum, heading into the fourth quarter, or at least after that uh that second touchdown, you know. So do his job, and um, you know, we won't find ourselves having this debate. Go ahead, Jay.
SPEAKER_04:Exactly right. The reason they found themselves doing it is because the special teams aspect of it has been um, you know, not showing up.
SPEAKER_01:And we all Logan Cook too, man. Like something, something's going on.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah. And we've seen like obviously, like the key with this team is um they are their best. And I mean, this is a lot of teams, but especially this team, they are their best when everybody, all three aspects of the ball, all three sides of the ball can contribute something, right? And where we've seen them struggle is where one side of the three isn't able to contribute. And in this case, it was the offense and special teams, right? So now you got the offense trying to overcompensate for the special teams issues, whereas, you know, when you look at the games where we've won, you know, it's been some kind of special teams contribution that has helped us to win, like the Parker Washington touchdown, Bachelor Tootin', you know, um getting us to the like 40, you know, so on and so forth. Normally we've had one good special teams play to help us offset like whatever offensive issues that we've been going through. And we've especially another thing that's showing two feel we've always also had the luxury of Anthony Campanili going out there and getting us three turnovers too, and that has disappeared the last two weeks too. So, like, you know, um not as complimentary as they have been, that's really hurting them. Um, I will say this on the play, on the um, not the play, but the series that you mentioned, where we drove the ball down the field with ease. Man, I love that fake screen that I don't know if it was Liam or the offensive coordinator that they came up with, but it was a fake screen where Brian Thomas looked like he was going to block for Parker Washington, uh fake the block, snuck past the cornerback who I think was Shaquille Griffin, by the way. I'll have to go back and look at it, and was wide open like our old buddy. There you go. Uh nobody was near him, though, man. Like he um he saw that screen well, and obviously they they had the the defense there full again. A very, very intelligent defense that Mike McDonald is running there. So I love that play. And one last takeaway that I want to discuss, too, is man, um, speaking of receivers, you know, Brian Thomas Jr. outsmarting them. Also, their our uh wide receivers outclassed us in a lot of ways. That really stood out to me. Um, Jackson Smith and Jigba, who I were I was very high on, and Boogie was too. Shoutouts to uh my nephew Boogie. And uh we always talked to him in the thread, but he's really coming into his own. I think they said he was like second in receiving on only under Puka Nakua um coming into this game. But his technical skills, man, really showed because sometimes uh in these plays he was covered, man. And he would break free with just how he cut out of his route and what have you. And then you add in Gary Kubiak scheming him open as well to a lot of um it was one play where Gary Kubiak um drew the linebackers up further up for Smith and Jigba to run a crosser behind them, right? Like between that and his technical skills, man, I was very impressed. And even with, you know, you saw it with albeit he's an older player now, Cooper Cup, man, he and his technical skills um really showed up as well because there was one play where I think it was um Jordan Lewis was right there on him, right? And Cooper Cup just with in years and years of experience, right? You know, he he knows how to weigh coverages and understand coverages, um, was able to just to get just a slight step. It wasn't even that big of a step on him, and they hit him, and that was his first touchdown of the year. And that was the first touchdown that I think that Jordan Lewis has given up to as well. But that just kind of shows you how technical uh and technically savvy both Cooper Cup and Smith and Jigba were. So I I want to give them a shout out too because um they they played a heck of a game, those two, um, in terms of what I saw on film.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, man. Jackson Smith and Jigba, certainly one of those guys that like deserves that to be to be in that conversation of one of the top wide receivers in the NFL. And uh yeah, he he showed out, man. I mean, obviously he had the big uh what what a terrible debut for Greg Newsom. And I don't think it was fully on him. I didn't get to watch the all 22J, so you tell me if like you got to look at that play better, uh, because a lot of people were also blaming Dewey for being out of place or uh him having a hand in that play as well. But uh yeah, not not the best way to aggratiate yourself with the fans, uh, but again, it's one of the best wide receivers in the NFL. So um, yeah, it was just overall, again, kind of from from beginning to end, just a game that Seattle was totally prepared for. And uh, you know, it's it's one of the reasons why I I like I don't necessarily think like Seattle's gonna go on a Super Bowl run, but I think they'll be one of those really difficult outs when it comes to down the stretch in the NFC, whether that be in the playoffs or just in the final weeks of the season. Um, I did want to ask you, Jay, because this is actually something that not only Wig has brought up, but I was listening to Locked on Jaguars yesterday and today, and some other people have kind of been talking about as well. And of course, the national media is gonna be uh, you know, whenever they talk about the Jags, this is going to come up. And is it time where are you at with this Travis Hunter development? Because as Wig pointed out, there are moments in the game where he's not in, where he's not in the game on like a big third down, whether it be on offense or defense. And it's like, that's why you brought him in, is to be that difference maker. And if you're I think the term that the sentence that Wig had used is if you're if you're in both rooms, then that means like the offensive room and the defensive room, that means you're not in uh in the other room enough enough time to learn whatever position it may be. I believe during the draft process you said he was a better you liked him better as a defender. Do you want him to focus more on that? Whatever it may be, whatever it's they're going to focus on, like I feel like they need to start doing that with him with him, especially considering the draft capital that you gave up and what you brought him in to do. So, six weeks into the season, coming up on week seven, where are you at with this Travis Hunter experiment? Are they doing him a disservice by allowing him to continue to want, you know, he obviously wants to play on both sides of the football, but as coaches, do they need to step in and say, hey, you need to focus more on this and we'll spot you here every once in a while? Where are you at, you know, a month and a half into the season?
SPEAKER_04:I think they're overthinking it, to be honest with you, Phil. Um, I and you you hit the nail on the head. I've always thought that he was a better cornerback, and um, we do need him at the corner position more anyway, now um that you know, we're going through the situation where we traded Tyson, right? So Tyson's out the door. And I think I don't know, I can't remember what analyst said this, but there was an analyst, it may have been Pi uh Pete Prisco who said this, but um they believe that Travis Hunter with Tyson Campbell out of the door, the goal is to make Travis Hunter more of a full-time cornerback next year. So they're trying to like ease him into that role next year, not thrust him into it this year. But I honestly would like to see him, and I I don't have the snap percentages in front of me, but I would love to see a game where he's in there 80% of the time at cornerback at the very least. And then what I would do on um offense, and this is just me personally, right? Liam Cohen is he's got more coaching ability than I ever could have, right? But um what I would do is I would like to see him 80% um on the defensive side because he's he's fared well at cornerback, by the way. Like he's been quite well, like we haven't had any um highlights where we've seen Travis Hunter really getting beat, aside from that Bengals game where that wasn't even a penalty, right? That they called on him. And then I would do uh and shout outs to um I think it was Jason Kelsey or Travis Kelsey who said this in their podcast. It's when he is on offense, and obviously if he's on defense 80% of the time, it's gonna take some time. It's gonna take the amount of snaps he can spend on offense as well. But when he's on offense, man, just use him as a deep threat, man, because that's where he's been the most effective, right? And I think it was Travis that said this. Travis Kelsey was like, man, just let that kid run downfield and go catch the ball, man. Let him go downfield. And a lot of these catches that we're seeing with him feel are catches where they'll let him catch it near the line of scrimmage and he, you know, he has to make yardage after the catch, which he's very good at doing, by the way. But he's even better at uh catching deep balls, in my opinion. Like the time that we have been most excited about Travis Hunter, when you look at all of the games that they've played, the the last game, not the uh not the Seahawks game, but Monday night football, that was the game that we left feeling the most excited by Travis Hunter. And you know why it was that way? Because he caught two deep balls that really, really gave the Jacksonville Jaguars um some explosive playmaking ability down the field. So if you can use him on a limited basis on offense where that's his primary role, is to be a deep threat and then on um use him 80% on the um the defensive side of the ball where he's been playing his best ball, man. I think like that's where he'll hit his stride if they move to that. But again, I think it was Pete or Tom Palisero or whoever it was, um, it may be Albert Breer, one of them. It sounds like they're trying to ease him into being a cornerback more so next year, and that's kind of where the conflict's coming in between like how they feel about him and how we feel about him as fans.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it never helps like this is kind of the deal with Trayvon Walker, right? Like Trayvon Walker is an outstanding player, but nationally, because of how good Aiden Hutchinson is, you know, he's not necessarily going to get that same um uh attention. What's happening here? Travis Hunter is getting all that attention, but there is a guy down in Tampa, your guy, uh Mekka Eggbuka, who is not surprisingly killing it right now. So on the you know, on the wide receiver end. And and uh Wig also brought this up. This was a really good point. Like you talk about the offenses in LA, Tampa, Minnesota, Puka, uh Mike Evans, Justin Jefferson, but those guys aren't playing on defense as well when it comes to those receivers. You know, wide receivers can flourish in this offense. We're starting to see Brian Thomas Jr. get going, but Travis Hunter's trying to play both sides of the football. And if they are going to continue to do so, then like you said, uh they got to stop overthinking it. And I I think at one at a certain point, you know, I like I agree. I think they should they should play most of the snaps at uh on defense and then spot him on offense. That seems to be the much better way like for him to get to get going. Just seems like as far as his skill set, it'd be much easier to insert in him into certain offensive formations as opposed to taking him on and off the field on defense. But uh again, I I refer to guys that like yourself and then other people like Wig to let me know like what would be the best way to do it. But um, you know, I we're not even halfway through the season. It's it's tough because you do see rookies have an immediate impact, but like we haven't seen anybody do this or attempt this in a long time. So it's it's hard to like balance out that sense of frustration because it's not frustration with Travis, it's like they're trying to do something again that no one has had to do in a long time.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, it's a reason why we haven't seen this attempted on both sides of the ball, right? You know what I'm saying? Because it's simply hard for any coach to do, right? So that being said, man, um, yeah, as you said, it is early. Um, but I would be ecstatic if I saw Travis Hunter play like 80% of the snaps at cornerback, man. And, you know, let him tell it, man. He could probably, according to him, he could do 80% on offense at the same time. But I think, you know, the um the coaching staff are trying to have some kind of restraint. They're trying to draw some kind of line, right? Because this is the NFL as to like, you know, putting a load on him that's that big, right? 80% on offense and 80% on defense is a little bit insane, you know. As good as an athlete as he is, but um, yeah, I mean, I think like with the additional snaps, if they were to let him play like 80% on defense too, I think that would clear up some of these narratives that we're hearing about, like where, you know, people are like, well, you know, Omeka Abuka is looking better at the wide receiver position than Travis Hunter. And like, it would stop the comparisons because what it would do is I think that would put Travis Hunter in a situation where he would just be balling out as a cornerback, and that alone, you know, I I can see him, I can envision him if they go 80% of the snaps on defense from this point heading forward. I can envision Travis Hunter. I wouldn't be shocked if the kid could get like four or five interceptions, and then those conversations of comparing him to other, you know, rookies that were taken in the first round, then we'll have a counter to that. Like, okay, well, you know, this kid is leading rookies potentially, if you know, if it ever got to that in interceptions. Um, he's leading rookies in, you know, coverage grade, whatever the case may be. Um, so I think they do need to let him focus on cornerback, and that would give us a better argument for these people who are trying to compare him to other rookies. But with the the snaps being kind of distributed the way they are, he's not gonna be able to make a case against any rookies, whether you're trying to compare him to wide receivers or cornerbacks, the way that they're going about his snaps.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So, you know, um, we haven't seen any reason to not trust the coaching staff fully yet, you know, outside of these damn penalties, which you know we just can't continue to have a conversation about every single week. They gotta they gotta clean that up, and that's really all there is to it. But uh, my next question, Jay, as we kind of get towards the end of this episode, um, of course, we in terms of the the pass rush and you know the the lack thereof, um we're we're paying Josh Heinz Allen a lot of money, and he does not have a sack yet. And uh, of course, without Trayvon Walker being fully 100%, you know, we're seeing the impact of that. We see uh you know a lot of people learning the importance and uh we what I mean we've known for a long time, but uh, you know, maybe people nationally also realizing what an important person Trayvon Walker and what an important role he plays on this defense. Uh what do you think is is the level of concern for Josh Hines Allen? And do you attribute it to the interior? You know, they're they're clearly making they they've already alluded to more moves being made. A lot of people are linking them to some other defensive, you know, some interior linemen. I think there was the news that came out they called about the Green Bay Packers guy. Uh, I can't remember his name here off the top of my head. Everybody, of course, is throwing out names like a Dexter Lawrence, but all of a sudden the the Giants are winning games. Who knows what's gonna happen there? So do you credit it to, again, the interior having a lot of struggles? Um, or is it just simply that Josh Hines Allen, hey, you're getting paid a lot of money, you got to start playing like it.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so I mean, obviously, not having Trayvon Walker doesn't help the situation in terms of um the attention that you can place on Josh Allen and what have you, regardless of how you feel about the interior part of the defense. Um, so you know, there is that. Um, because you know, when they're fully healthy and they're together, make no mistake about it, they are one of the best pass rushing tandems in football. Now that said, even when putting Trayvon back into the equation, I still never thought they had enough in the interior in terms of getting that push in the interior that they need. Um now, granted, look, Devon Hamilton is a you know, he's never really done it for me, but he's a good player. You know, he's a player that can offer you some run stuffs, a yard behind a line of scrimmage, you know, things like that. But in terms of pushing the pocket and giving you pocket penetration, he's not that guy. And you know, I was looking at PFF the other day. I think for most of his career, he's never really registered over a 60 as a pass rusher, aside from like maybe twice in his career. Whereas these names that you know we're mentioning in terms of the rumors, Jeffrey Simmons and Dexter Lawrence have registered over 70s for most of their career as pass rushers in terms of you know the grades with PFF. And again, you know, sometimes we agree with the grades at PFF, sometimes we don't. And in this case, we do. But those two guys that I just mentioned, they've registered over 70 as a pass rusher for most of their career. I think with Simmons, he's registered over 70, aside from two seasons, his first two seasons, um, in terms of the pass rush grade, and then Lawrence only has registered below a 70 once, and that was his rookie season. So that kind of tells you the difference in what you're looking at there. Indeed, I remind you that they are pretty good against the run. Their run support grades are not bad too. So they could do a little bit of both, whereas Devon Hamilton is a little bit one-dimensional. And when you look at the Jaguars history, right, it's always taking that one pocket penetrator to get the defense over the top. History has always shown that, and that's just how football simply works. But even when you go back to the previous regimes, right, with um Dave Caldwell, um, he he had to eventually bring Malik Jackson into the mix to help them get that push in the pocket that they needed, right? And then I guess Balkey attempted it with Eric Armstead, and then they ended up like misplacing him. Um he was playing, you know, on the edge. But I I think that was probably the intent when he signed Eric Armstead was for him to be the pocket pusher um that they needed him, uh, that they needed during his regime, the Trent Balkey regime. So, yeah, historically when you look at just how the Jacksonville Jaguars um have been dominant when they've been dominant along the offensive line, it's typically been because they've had that guy who's a deep pocket penetrator, and they simply don't have that guy right now to help Josh Hines Allen. But if we were able to get him, you'll see a drastic difference. And um, I think that's why you see James Gladstone and you hear these rumors of them looking into the types of players that they are looking into.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's obviously it's completely different positions, but like it's kind of similar to like what's happening with Trevor. Like, what can he really do when he's got constant pressure? You know, I I haven't seen the numbers in terms of how often Josh Hines Allen is has been uh double teamed or you know uh attracted a lot more attention since Trayvon Walker has been out, but I'm sure it's a pretty high number. And you know, this is something we've seen before. Like we need a guy like in the like in the uh you know, Saxonville days, like in Yannick Ngakway. You know, they can just go. They can just go get the quarterback, and uh, you know, they've been trying to find that kind of that running mate with him, and it is Trayvon Walker, but in terms of the interior, you know, they those guys just aren't there. Mason Smith has been a no-show, right? We we had very high hopes for him. So um just add that to another thing on the list, Jay, that I think James Gladstone and Liam Cohen are certainly going to address very soon, whether it'd be in the draft or even again via trade. But um, to wrap up here, Jay, I guess we'll talk about a little bit like going forward because the Jaguars did, and Liam Cohen already announced today that Devin Lloyd will not make the trip to London. Um, obviously, um, as you already alluded to, the Rams are going to be out with without Puka Nakua. So big name players out for both teams on that side. You know, what what do you think that does in terms of how the Jaguars approach the game over in London? Devontae Adams hasn't necessarily been, I think, the game breaker they expected him to be. But also when he has Puka next to him, he doesn't have to be. But with Puka Nakua now out, uh, what do you think is going to be the bigger loss? Maybe the Rams with Puka Nakua or the Jaguars with Devin Lloyd?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, I think Puka. By the way, Puka, like, I think Puka Nakua is like he he's personally one of my favorite players in the league, dude. Like a topic. He might be fifth play player, like in the league. Top three and probably not three. So that he that guy's elite, man. And also, too, what what the factor into it is not just how how I rank Puka in terms of where he is in the league, in terms of how good of a player he is, but also too, um, the Jacksonville Jaguars have Ventrell Miller, who's not a bad player, you know, by the way. And Ventrell Miller, as a matter of fact, he was when I was speaking on the players on defense, like the four players, I think it was four players that got a score of 70 or higher on PFF in the last game, he was one of them. He led the way, by the way, Phil. I think he had over 85 Ventrell Miller, albeit look, it's a small sample size. He he went out there for the whole game, but um still just to come in and um play such an important role for this defense on like a spot duty type of situation and still be able to register over 85 is is quite telling. And we we've seen him flash before right field last year. We were just calling him the leader of the new school, right? Because we felt like when we looked at these bulky picks and these bulky free agents, when we looked ahead, which is this year, we were look at the time it was 2024. We were like, who who here we we can see here for years and years to come? And Ventrell Miller was the first one we mentioned, pretty much. Um, so yeah, I have faith in him. He's a very good linebacker. Um, now look, to replace Devin Lloyd in the outer body experience he's having, like, he's not gonna play at that level, obviously, right? Like, we're talking about Devin Lloyd being the defensive player of the year. Like, so Vince, that's a lot of that's that's some big time shoes to feel, but I think he certainly can um go out there and hold his own, especially with Foyer next to him, by the way, too. So I think the Puka, the absence of Puka is way more significant than what um we're dealing with on our end.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, he is such an essential part of that team. And no, granted, I haven't necessarily been 100% paying attention to the LA Rams, but you know, every time you look up, Puka Nakua is making a play. So even I think just an easy guy to root for, you know, that's why he's one of our favorites to watch. So um, but yeah, the Devin Lloyd injury, certainly uh um uh unfortunate, definitely a big hit, especially when it comes to uh when you talk about um like a defensive player of the year campaign, we'll see how long he is going to be out, but we'll certainly keep tabs on that. But uh Jay, is there anything else you want to get to here in this episode as we wrap up? Uh again, just a disappointing loss all around, but the Jaguars still find themselves in position uh to uh you know be in striking range for, of course, the division. The Colts still five and one, playing very well. We'll have two big matchups with them towards the end of the season, uh, but hope to avoid back-to-back losses for the first time this year and uh you know pull out a win, another victory across the pond. So anything else you want to talk about before we wrap up for the evening?
SPEAKER_04:Nah, we've covered it, man. I want to just wash this one off our hands. I mean, well, I can't do that because I got to watch the rest of the fourth quarter. Um so um I'm I'm ready to get to that point, though, where we wash this one off our hands and start moving forward. Uh it's interesting you mentioned the Colts, man. I was looking at their schedule, man. The hardest part is coming up for them, though. Like, the part that they've gone through is we'll learn a lot about the Colts here pretty soon. Yep. Like, and the the it's the opposite with us, we've gone through the hardest part of our schedule. We we had that road game against the 40 uh 49ers, right? Uh, we had the um Monday night.
SPEAKER_01:Monday night, right?
SPEAKER_04:Like those were the two. If you would have asked me and you like before the season, what are the two like you know most difficult games in our eyes? It was those two, right? You know what I'm saying? So um, or we would put them somewhere on among the top of the list. So yeah, we're gonna find out about them and Daniel Jones and um I think come November, man, uh, you know, that's where don't we face them twice in November, right, Phil? I think or December.
SPEAKER_01:December. 7th and the 28th. Right. That's uh the 28th is the home game. So that's the one you certainly don't want to lose if you're Jacksonville with that win streak against them at home. But yeah, uh to touch on that really quick, like you said, Chargers, then they have the Titans. That'll be that should be a win. Then you have the Steelers, and then they play their own game in London against the Falcons. Who knows what can happen there, and then they have the Chiefs. So Chargers, Steelers, Chiefs, those are three teams that will, you know, by that time either they are in first place or they will be in first place. But then the Chiefs could possibly be turning things around here, which is kind of concerning. But yeah, three of their next uh four or five games, yeah. I mean, yeah, they they then they still have the Seahawks and the Niners on their schedule as well. They do play Houston twice, which I think is gonna be gonna benefit them. But yeah, we'll learn a lot more about them here pretty soon. Uh kudos to them. Hey, listen, five and one is five and one, man. And they only lost to the Rams by seven. So I'm not gonna take anything away from them, but like at the end of the day, and they'll probably say this about Trevor Lawrence, but like still at the end of the day, Daniel Jones is still your quarterback. So we'll see what happens. Uh, but we are going to learn about the Indianapolis Colts very, very soon. So that is going to be worth keeping an eye on. Again, two big matchups coming up in a couple of months. Uh Jaguars just need to keep pace, which I think they'll do. Uh I um feel good about this team, even though, again, Sunday was a rough watch. But folks, thank you so much for joining us for another episode of Touchdown Jaguars. Make sure to click the Link Tree link in the show notes of this episode. You'll find us over on social media. We're keeping you up with any transactions, the injury reports, statistics. Jay is always posting stuff uh throughout the entire week from uh press conferences, everything like that. And I throw some little tidbits out there as well. So make sure you follow both Jay and I as well as the Touchdown Jaguars podcast over on Twitter. And also uh if you're listening on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, whatever podcast player you are using, uh make sure you give us five stars. One of the best ways you can support the show. Truly appreciate it. And you can use our promo code Touchdown Jaguars over on SeatGeek, save yourself some money on your first SeatGeek purchase, and also helps uh us keep the lights on here at Touchdown Jaguars. We really appreciate it. But folks, that is my co-host, James Johnson. I am Phil Barrera. Don't forget to tune into Touchdown Jaguars for each and every Jaguar touchdown, and we will see you next week.
